Unintentionally Sour Beer

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BoSoxFan02

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So, a few months ago, one of my beers tasted sour. Then the next one did too. The one after that was worse. Now I detect this sourness in every beer, of every style. I never see any visible signs of infection, but infection was what I thought of first.

I've simplified my process as much as possible to address the possibility of infection - I stopped using the aerator I got from morebeer.com (the kind that uses air, not pure oxygen). I threw out all my tubing and started pouring the beer straight from the kettle into the better bottle using only a sanitized funnel. I used PBW and Starsan on everything religiously. The sourness hasn't gone away even in my wheat beer, which is many months old by now - it tastes like a nice, tart apple cider basically.

It's especially frustrating because I finally cured my other problem, a chemical taste (I switched to spring water), and up comes this new problem.

Could it be something other than infection?

Thanks for your help!

Jonathan
 
Are you handling grain in the same area you brew? The dust can land in your newly cooled wort and sour it over time.

The usual culprits are tubing, racking canes, spigots, and airborne infections.
 
+1 on grain dust. I think you had the right idea replacing all of your plastics though. If you had three batches in a row turn sour, it's most likely an infection somewhere. It happens to the best of us. I recently had to deal with it too.

I threw out everything plastic and replaced it. Bought a new type of sanitizer. Boiled everything that could be boiled. Probably went overboard on cleaning everything. I've been good ever since that though.
 
Thanks a lot. I'm not sure about the grain dust - I'll have to look into that next time I brew. I think I will replace everything plastic, like the funnel and bottling bucket (it's hard to tell at what point in the process the beer becomes sour).
 
These batches have all been half-batches in the small, square-ish Better Bottles. I ferment them in a chest freezer with a temp controller. The freezer's a bit dirty, so I figure the infection could come from in there. That would be especially possible for the batches in which the fermenter was open for a while during aerating. For that reason, I'm hoping my next batch (which I didn't aerate) won't be sour, and I'll have found my problem...but I think I detected some sourness in the hydrometer sample, so I'm not optimistic.
 
When are you aerating? Your post sounds as if you let it ferment a few days and then aerate...that is a problem.
 
Generally, I've aerated right after cooling, in the fermentation freezer. I guess I'll find out in a few weeks (I'm bottling the non-aerated beer today) if that was the source of the problem...

Thanks again
 
ok, as long as the only aerating you do is prior to pitching yeast. Are you doing extract batches? Are they undrinkable sour? or just a slight twang?

And does your fermenter smell sour after you clean it?
 
Yep, I only aerate before pitching. I found that aerating simply by shaking kept me at 1.020 a lot, and I never had that problem with the aerating pump. I'm doing all-grain using the stove-top method (I live in a small apartment, hence the half batches).

The wheat beer, and my recent Edwort's Haus Ale, were very sour. Not undrinkable, but not at all like beer. My other beers - an American brown and a Wee Heavy, are more drinkable - the maltier, darker flavors seem to help obscure the sourness.

I haven't noticed anything unusual in the fermenter's smell after cleaning it.
 
Since it keeps happening, it sounds you are consistently doing something wrong. Or there is an infection somewhere. Examine your process and be sure you aren't missing on sanitizing something or forgetting something. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in here. I can understand it's frustrating having an issue over and over.
 
Due to the fact that it's consistant and you haven't replaced everything, chances are it's an infection. The problem is, once you infect a beer...everything it touches becomes infected also. It's very hard to kill infections with plastic brewing equipment.

When I got my infection, it was because I used a bottling bucket as my primary. I noticed after the batch that was infected that the spigot had a little beer in it. It was leaking out very slowly. Also, with the plastic spigots, they're very hard to get 100% clean.

I know it will be costly, but as I said above, anything plastic needs to be replaced.
 
I was worried you'd say that! But I'm sure it's correct. I'll make a trip to Modern Brewer as soon as possible...
 
Be sure to update us on if that took care of it. I'm KIND OF dealing with a similar issue. I've had my last two come out sour. The first was sour in the fermenter, and I had that sour smell even after I cleaned the fermenter. Went from primary to secondary now to bottle. 12 days after bottling, the sour seems to be clearing, which I think is odd.

The second is now in the secondary, and when I racked I sampled. It was also less sour than the samples I pulled from primary.

So both seemed to start sour, but seem to be clearing of that. I'll know in a week or so if the bottled brew has improved at all.
 
I had two batches in a row go sour. I tasted both of them before they went into the bottle and they were fine. The second time thinking it was my sanitazion techniques I boild 15 gallons of water. I poured my bottling bucket clear full with bleach water and let it set for an hour after cleaning it with oxy clean. I ran the bleach water out through the spigot so five gallons went through the valve. Then I rinsed it with some of the boiled water and filled it clear full of starsan and let it set for thirty minutes and then dumped it out and let it dry. All of the hoses and bottle filler was done the same way. I soaked the bottles over night in bleach, rinsed with boiled water and then starsan. I tasted the brew and it was good two weeks later it was sour, three weeks it was worse. The next batch totally discussed I bought kegs and built a freezer.

I have two beers kegged and they are both great no problems. I just blamed it all on the bottles. After reading this I searched bottle buckets and done a little more reading on the issue. I went and got my bottle bucket and took the spigot apart and there is a little gunk in the valve. I dont know if this is why they soured but it is a good chance I was infecting every bottle. I think I am going to bottle my next batch straight out of the carboy with my auto siphon and the bottle filler.
 
I was worried you'd say that! But I'm sure it's correct. I'll make a trip to Modern Brewer as soon as possible...

I am curious if you solved your problem.
This exactly describes the problem that I have always had.
I am close to giving up as I cannot make a satisfactory tasting beer.
I have tried replacing all of my plastic tubing twice, I pitch 4000 ml stir plate starters, I replaced my bottling bucket, I aerate with pure oxygen, I have tried extract, partial mash, and all grain. I have excellent result achieving temperatures, fermenting starts quickly, attenuation is usually right on. I have had my water analyzed and have recently been modifying my water profile while using 50% distilled water.

All of this and all of my beers have a slight sour twang and are not good.
They look good, they generally have good carbonation and head but, I would not feel good serving them to anyone because of the taste.

I believe it is possible to make good beer or this hobby would not be popular. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to make anything that I can drink more than one in a row.

Please tell me this is not just a huge waste of money for no satisfaction.
 
Due to the fact that it's consistant and you haven't replaced everything, chances are it's an infection. The problem is, once you infect a beer...everything it touches becomes infected also. It's very hard to kill infections with plastic brewing equipment.

When I got my infection, it was because I used a bottling bucket as my primary. I noticed after the batch that was infected that the spigot had a little beer in it. It was leaking out very slowly. Also, with the plastic spigots, they're very hard to get 100% clean.

I know it will be costly, but as I said above, anything plastic needs to be replaced.

Sounds like somewhere in your brewing process that some of your equipment that comes in contact with your beer has not been properly sanitized. It cannot be overstated that proper sanitizing is a must when making beer. I had the same problems in the past when I started homebrewing so its something that you need to make 100% sure that you are doing correctly.

That being said, You can use plastic fermenters (buckets & carboys)to brew great tasting beer but like I said you have to be particular about getting them sanitized properly. I also usually will replace them after a couple of years depending on how much they are used and replace the tubing as well.
 
Sounds like somewhere in your brewing process that some of your equipment that comes in contact with your beer has not been properly sanitized. It cannot be overstated that proper sanitizing is a must when making beer. I had the same problems in the past when I started homebrewing so its something that you need to make 100% sure that you are doing correctly.

That being said, You can use plastic fermenters (buckets & carboys)to brew great tasting beer but like I said you have to be particular about getting them sanitized properly. I also usually will replace them after a couple of years depending on how much they are used and replace the tubing as well.

I use plastic all the time. I'm just saying...don't use a bottling bucket. And when you get an infection, throw out whatever plastic that touched that beer.

I am curious if you solved your problem.
This exactly describes the problem that I have always had.
I am close to giving up as I cannot make a satisfactory tasting beer.
I have tried replacing all of my plastic tubing twice, I pitch 4000 ml stir plate starters, I replaced my bottling bucket, I aerate with pure oxygen, I have tried extract, partial mash, and all grain. I have excellent result achieving temperatures, fermenting starts quickly, attenuation is usually right on. I have had my water analyzed and have recently been modifying my water profile while using 50% distilled water.

All of this and all of my beers have a slight sour twang and are not good.
They look good, they generally have good carbonation and head but, I would not feel good serving them to anyone because of the taste.

I believe it is possible to make good beer or this hobby would not be popular. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to make anything that I can drink more than one in a row.

Please tell me this is not just a huge waste of money for no satisfaction.

If it's happening with every single batch of beer, chances are it's your water. I tried using 50/50 tap/RO water, it didn't help. I have now gone to 100% RO water with brewing salts/minerals added to hit the right pH. Try brewing a batch with all Distilled or RO water and see how it works out. I think you'll be suprised.
 
On my next batch I will use all new plastic hoses, siphons, bottling wand, and some other source of water. Should I get a new bottling bucket or use some other technique?
BTW, I always use glass carboy fermenters.

I do not have an RO system. I have all of the brewing salts, is it possible to be successful with 100% distilled water?

My mash tun is plastic and I am under the assumption that since the wort is boiled after the mash tun it can not be the source. Is that true or do I need to replace my mash tun?

Thanks you so much for the reply. As I said, I feel as I am doing everything I can with sanitation and technique without success.
 
The problem is not the MT.

Mill your grain the day before the brewday.

What do you use for a sanitizer? I believe in Star San.

If don't already do it, Star San your bottles. I don't do this because my dishwasher gets hot enough to do the job, but you might try it. Do you caps too, just before boiling.

Totally avoid opening your fermenter until bottling day. Just trust the yeast, give it time, and in this way avoid any contamination from wine thief, etc.
 
I do not have an RO system. I have all of the brewing salts, is it possible to be successful with 100% distilled water?

RO and Distilled water are pretty much the same thing. The only difference is the process in which the minerals are taken out of the water.
 
The problem is not the MT.

Mill your grain the day before the brewday.

What do you use for a sanitizer? I believe in Star San.

If don't already do it, Star San your bottles. I don't do this because my dishwasher gets hot enough to do the job, but you might try it. Do you caps too, just before boiling.

Totally avoid opening your fermenter until bottling day. Just trust the yeast, give it time, and in this way avoid any contamination from wine thief, etc.

Thank you for the reply.

I have been milling my grain while my strike water is heating. Is there a benefit to doing it the day before?

I use Star San mixed at the recommended ratio with tap water (I will make a new batch w/ distilled). My technique is to fully submerge two bottles in a bucket w/ Star San solution and drain on a bottle tree. I sanitize ~ 55 bottles then start bottling. I also place my caps in a SS bowl of Star San as well as sanitizing my capper.

I do usually take a hydrometer reading at the recommended end of fermentation to determine if have attenuated properly.
 
Thank you for the reply.

I have been milling my grain while my strike water is heating. Is there a benefit to doing it the day before?

I use Star San mixed at the recommended ratio with tap water (I will make a new batch w/ distilled). My technique is to fully submerge two bottles in a bucket w/ Star San solution and drain on a bottle tree. I sanitize ~ 55 bottles then start bottling. I also place my caps in a SS bowl of Star San as well as sanitizing my capper.

I do usually take a hydrometer reading at the recommended end of fermentation to determine if have attenuated properly.


When you mill the grain, there can be a lot of airborne grain dust. This dust might carry lactobaccillus, which will cause a sour-tasting infection. Doing it the day before pretty much guarantees that the dust has dispersed and won't land in your cooled pot.
 
Distilled water by itself isn't going to give you good results when you try to mash with it. You need to "build" your water profile if you start with Distilled or RO water.
 
Distilled water by itself isn't going to give you good results when you try to mash with it. You need to "build" your water profile if you start with Distilled or RO water.

I have been using the EZ water calulator spreadsheet that I got from this site to build my water profiles using 50% tap + 50% distilled based on my water report. But, it has been suggested that maybe my water is the source of my problem.

I will build up a profile from distilled water on my next batch. I will be brewing the AHS Platinum ESB. Any suggested profile? I have always adjusted both my mash water as well as my sparge water because I assume that some more conversion can take place during a batch sparge.
 
When you mill the grain, there can be a lot of airborne grain dust. This dust might carry lactobaccillus, which will cause a sour-tasting infection. Doing it the day before pretty much guarantees that the dust has dispersed and won't land in your cooled pot.

Ok, thanks for the tip. I will mill the grain the day before outside so there is no dust near my brew area or fermenters. Maybe I should add the grain to my mash tun outside as well because that stirs up a little dust.
 
I have been using the EZ water calulator spreadsheet that I got from this site to build my water profiles using 50% tap + 50% distilled based on my water report. But, it has been suggested that maybe my water is the source of my problem.

I will build up a profile from distilled water on my next batch. I will be brewing the AHS Platinum ESB. Any suggested profile? I have always adjusted both my mash water as well as my sparge water because I assume that some more conversion can take place during a batch sparge.

Look up the water profile of Burton on Trent. It'll be perfect for an ESB. No need to overdo it with the hardness though. If you only get half of what Burton has, it'll turn out fine.


Distilled water by itself isn't going to give you good results when you try to mash with it. You need to "build" your water profile if you start with Distilled or RO water.

Have you ever brewed with 100% RO? When I first started using RO water, I brewed a Dopplebock with no additions to the water. Beer turned out great and actually won me a few awards. I haven't used straight RO since then though.
 
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