Thinking about skipping second fermentation.

lroog · 05-01-2009, 01:24 AM

I am going for my second batch, a blond summer ale, and I am thinking about putting the wort in my glass carboy only. I think I'll just leave it in there for two weeks instead of the second fermentation. Do you all think this is a good idea?

**Revvy** · 05-01-2009, 01:28 AM

First off, many of us leave our beers in Primary for a month, we find our beers are clearer and taste better when we do. Also since the yeast compacts tightly, there is very little sediment in the beers.

Secondly, "secondary fermenter" is actually a misnomer and a mistake many brewers don't grasp....the secondary has nothing to do with he process of "secondary fermentation" which is part of the normal yeast life cycle, one of the stages of fermentation.Which is done in your bucket or carboy.

You shouldn't rack a beer to secondary until fermentation is complete...

The secondary we are referring to is also called a "brite tank" it is the carboy where people move their beer to clear, or to add fruit, or hops for dry hopping... and to let the yeast and other things fall down...It's to clear the beer....but if you leave your beer in primary for several weeks you don't need to worry...

Here's John Palmer's explanation of the Secondary fermentation Phase

Quote:

The reactions that take place during the conditioning phase are primarily a function of the yeast. The vigorous primary stage is over, the majority of the wort sugars have been converted to alcohol, and a lot of the yeast cells are going dormant - but some are still active.

The Secondary Phase allows for the slow reduction of the remaining fermentables. The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose. Also, the yeast clean up some of the byproducts they produced during the fast-paced primary phase. But this stage has its dark side too.

Under some conditions, the yeast will also consume some of the compounds in the trub. The "fermentation" of these compounds can produce several off-flavors. In addition, the dormant yeast on the bottom of the fermentor begin excreting more amino and fatty acids. Leaving the post-primary beer on the trub and yeast cake for too long (more than about three weeks) will tend to result in soapy flavors becoming evident. Further, after very long times the yeast begin to die and break down - autolysis, which produces yeasty or rubbery/fatty/meaty flavors and aromas. For these reasons, it can be important to get the beer off of the trub and dormant yeast during the conditioning phase.

There has been a lot of controversy within the homebrewing community on the value of racking beers, particularly ales, to secondary fermentors. Many seasoned homebrewers have declared that there is no real taste benefit and that the dangers of contamination and the cost in additional time are not worth what little benefit there may be. While I will agree that for a new brewer's first, low gravity, pale beer that the risks probably outweigh the benefits; I have always argued that through careful transfer, secondary fermentation is beneficial to nearly all beer styles. But for now, I will advise new brewers to only use a single fermentor until they have gained some experience with racking and sanitation.

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

It's easy to see how confusing the terms are...that's why we try to get outta the habit of saying secondary fermentation...and say secondary...or bright tank (mostly just secondary, dropping fermenter or fermentation, since fermentation should be finished before you rack it to the secondary.

If you do choose to use a "bright tank" it's best to wait til fermentation is complete, you know that by taking 2 gravity readings over a 3 day period. If the grav hasn't changed, then you can rack it without having a krausen develop...though sometimes it does anyway.

Many of us nowadays forgo a bright tank and just leave our beers in primary for 3-4 weeks, then bottle...We only use a secondary if we are adding something to the beer, such as fruit, dryhopping or oaking the beer, otherwise we just leave the beer alone and let the yeasts clean up the beer at their own pace. Or if we added fruit, like pumpkin in the boil and want to get the beer off the goop.

Hope this helps clear things up for you...and leave your beer a month and it will thank you.

Spludge · 05-01-2009, 01:30 AM

Of course! Give it three weeks in the primary if you feel like it.
With a beer like a blonde however I usually give it a day or two in a secondary so I don't rack as much sediment into my bottling bucket and bottles, but thats just me.

lroog · 05-01-2009, 01:39 AM

Revvy

**Revvy** · 05-01-2009, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spludge

Of course! Give it three weeks in the primary if you feel like it.
With a beer like a blonde however I usually give it a day or two in a secondary so I don't rack as much sediment into my bottling bucket and bottles, but thats just me.

If you go to 3 or 4 weeks there is absolutely no reason to do a secondary, your beer will clear and your yeastcake will compress and you won't get that much sediment in your bottling bucket or your bottles....that's part of the reason we long primary..

Look at Chesirecat's thread.....He does a great job of showing with pics, how much sediment is left behind in a long primary..

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/leaving-beer-behind-your-yeast-116795/

David 42 even gives another great reason to do so...MORE BEER!

Quote:

Originally Posted by david_42

Entirely correct. Most ferments, the cake compacts to 1/3 the volume if you wait an extra two weeks. That's 4-5 pints in my book.

bdaddy · 05-01-2009, 02:42 AM

My 1st brew has been in the primary for just under 4 weeks by the time I bottle it this weekend. I'm a bit of a procrastinator and haven't gotten around to getting the required bottles needed :-) Palmer's comment "Leaving the post-primary beer on the trub and yeast cake for too long (more than about three weeks) will tend to result in soapy flavors becoming evident" has me a little worried, but not terribly at this point as I've heard others leave theirs on for much longer.

Anyways, my next brew I do plan to rack to a secondary for the simple fact of freeing up my primary so I can start another brew. In that situation, what would you recommend as for how long to leave in the primary? Should I leave it 2 weeks and then transfer into secondary to free up my bucket? Or do I really have to pay attention to when it actually completes fermentation and transfer it immediately?

woollybugger2 · 05-01-2009, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdaddy

My 1st brew has been in the primary for just under 4 weeks by the time I bottle it this weekend. I'm a bit of a procrastinator and haven't gotten around to getting the required bottles needed :-) Palmer's comment "Leaving the post-primary beer on the trub and yeast cake for too long (more than about three weeks) will tend to result in soapy flavors becoming evident" has me a little worried, but not terribly at this point as I've heard others leave theirs on for much longer.

Anyways, my next brew I do plan to rack to a secondary for the simple fact of freeing up my primary so I can start another brew. In that situation, what would you recommend as for how long to leave in the primary? Should I leave it 2 weeks and then transfer into secondary to free up my bucket? Or do I really have to pay attention to when it actually completes fermentation and transfer it immediately?

READ post #2 in this thread...

bdaddy · 05-01-2009, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woollybugger2

READ post #2 in this thread...

I must be confused...I did! (in fact I quoted his quote from Palmer)

So I understand that I don't NEED to rack to secondary (which I think was the point of Revy's post), but I'm saying that I'm likely going to for no other real reason than I need to free up my primary for another batch. My question was more around, if I'm doing that, do I need to rack to secondary immediately after fermentation completes...or does it really matter if I do it a week or 2 later.

**Laughing_Gnome_Invisible** · 05-01-2009, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdaddy

I must be confused...I did! (in fact I quoted his quote from Palmer)

So I understand that I don't NEED to rack to secondary (which I think was the point of Revy's post), but I'm saying that I'm likely going to for no other real reason than I need to free up my primary for another batch. My question was more around, if I'm doing that, do I need to rack to secondary immediately after fermentation completes...or does it really matter if I do it a week or 2 later.

If you want to rack to secondary, do it when you have reached final gravity, plus a few days.....or any time after that. There is no harm in using secondary (Clearing tank) Some people like to do it, others don't. Sometimes, with limited equipment a secondary is useful......Hell, sometimes I will rack to secondary for no better reason that i want to meet my beer again!!

There are no hard and fast rules, you just do what suits your equipment and your preferences the best.

JoeMama · 05-01-2009, 03:20 AM

What you need to do is just brew more and worry less. This way, you can allow yourself to forget about your brew(s) while you are focused on the successive batches. (Hence leaving them for at least a month w/ no secondary) All the while securing a beautiful pipeline.
-Me