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Old 01-16-2009, 01:33 PM   #1
Marko73
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Default struggling with Late Extract Addition

Hi all,

I have been struggling with the late extract method for awhile now. I have had some brews be way too bitter, some way too dark, and also some that have had scorched extract.

I recently bought a kit that I want to try this with and I just want to make sure this all makes sense.

Recipe for a English Pale Ale:

8 oz Crystal Malt (milled)
3.3 lbs Plain Light LME
2 lbs Light DME
1 oz Kent Golding @ 4.5 AA (60 minutes bittering)
1.5 oz Glacier @ 6.0 AA (5 minutes finishing)

Process is pretty standard for an off the shelf kit:

Steep the Crystal Malt at 160 degrees for 20 minutes.
Bring to a boil, remove from heat and add all the extract.
Add Bittering hops and boil for 55 minutes, Add Finishing hops and boil for 5 more minutes.

The process I would like to use is:

Add the 2 lbs DME up front and the 3.3 lbs of LME with 15 minutes left in boil.

If I do this, from what I read on the forums, I should reduce the Bittering hops by 20 to 25% percent due to the better hop utilization.

Is this correct? Is splitting the extract a good idea or should I add it all with 15 minutes left?

Does this all make sense?

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Old 01-16-2009, 03:14 PM   #2
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you are adding a little less than 50% malt extract in the beginning of the boil so you want to add your hops by the same amount and you need some extract for hop utilization so it wont be a good idea to add all the extract at the end of the boil. Is this a full boil or partial boil?

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Old 01-16-2009, 03:17 PM   #3
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The last batch I did was a late extract addition except with a 90 minute full boil. I steeped the grain, added two pounds of DME and boiled for 30 minutes and started the hop additions at 60 minutes. The six pounds of LME went in at flame out. there is plenty of heat in 5 gallons of boiling wort to pasteurize the LME. I've done it this way many times with excellent results; a nice light, good tasting ale.

Tom

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Old 01-16-2009, 03:58 PM   #4
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If its a partial boil, wont the hops utilization go down? So with the late addition of half the extract in a 3 gallon boil for a 5 gallon batch...would you reduce the bittering hops at all?

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Old 01-16-2009, 04:36 PM   #5
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From my experience it's pretty hard to over hop a partial boil - I've upped the bittering hops additions by 25-30% on several recipes just to get the IBUs where I think they should be. I do late extract addition PMs, so the 3 gallons I boil is usually close to (or under) the OG of the whole 5.5g batch.

Look at it this way: Whatever IBUs you get in your boil, you're usually going to dilute it by half or more by the time you top it off to recipe size.

I think you're right on with your original plan, except I wouldn't reduce the hops - but I also prefer beers that are a little hoppier than most kits seem to end up.

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Old 01-16-2009, 04:53 PM   #6
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Thanks everyone.

I didn't take the boil volume into account. That is really good. It would be a partial boil so I think I will leave the bittering hops alone.

I will let you know how it turns out!

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Old 01-16-2009, 04:59 PM   #7
Shawn Hargreaves
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I've used late extract addition for all but my first couple of brews (first with all extract, then more recently partial mashes), and highly recommend it.

Tips:

- Use brewing software (I like Beer Smith) to check how things like late extract and boil volume impacts your IBU. This is both easier and less error prone than trying to calculate it by hand.

- I normally add the final extract 5 mins from the end of the boil, but anywhere from 15 to zero can work. Again, software makes it easier to track the exact implications of changing your timing.

- Temporarily remove the pan from the heat while you add the extract, and stir like crazy both while adding it (which requires either two people, or considerable dexterity and patience :-) and for several minutes afterward until it is fully dissolved. Extract loves to coagulate on the bottom of the pan if you give it half a chance.

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Old 01-16-2009, 05:10 PM   #8
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Shawn makes a good point on adding the late extract when it's off the heat to avoid scorching. I pause the boil timer, add in the extract and stir well, then re-start the timer again once the boil is re-established.

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Old 01-16-2009, 05:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marko73 View Post
...some brews...too bitter, some too dark, and some scorched extract....

8 oz Crystal Malt (milled)
3.3 lbs Plain Light LME
2 lbs Light DME
1 oz Kent Golding @ 4.5 AA (60 minutes bittering)
1.5 oz Glacier @ 6.0 AA (5 minutes finishing)

Process is pretty standard for an off the shelf kit:

Steep the Crystal Malt at 160 degrees for 20 minutes.
Bring to a boil, remove from heat and add all the extract.

Add Bittering hops and boil for 55 minutes, Add Finishing hops and boil for 5 more minutes.

The process I would like to use is:

Add the 2 lbs DME up front and the 3.3 lbs of LME with 15 minutes left in boil.
...reduce the Bittering hops by 20 to 25% percent due to the better hop utilization. Is this correct? Is splitting the extract a good idea or should I add it all with 15 minutes left?
OK, several things...

How much water are you boiling? Try to keep the water to LME/DME ratio as near to 1:1 as possible.

I boil 1.25-1.5 gal boils and just over 1 lb of steeped grain or DME mix and all the bittering hops. So, boil 1.25 gals to 1 lb of DME.

(Save the LME for last, better yet eliminate LME from all of your recipes because they are always darker than you want/expect).

Add the bittering hops. Boil 45 mins. Remove pot from heat. Add remaining DME and LME. Add DME at 1 lb at a time and stir in until dissolved before adding the next pound. Let sit for 15 mins, but add any flavoring/aroma hops per the recipe.

I don't return the pot to the flame to boil again. LME and DME have already been boiled once. Reboiling will only make it darker. Just steep it for pasteurization.

I place a nylon net on my primary bucket to catch the hops and sparge (rinse) the wort off the hops with top off water. I place 4 gals of filtered tap water in the freezer for 4-05 hours prior to brewing and it gets nice and frosty. Top off primary to 5.25 gals.

With your method, adding all the malt for 60 mins, using a small boil would make the density (gravity of the wort) thick which underutilizes the extration of the bitterness from the hops. How yours is too bitter is a surprise to me, but you didn't say how much water you boil.

Your mileage may vary, but that's basically the process I've been using for 14+ years.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifishsum View Post
Shawn makes a good point on adding the late extract when it's off the heat to avoid scorching. I pause the boil timer, add in the extract and stir well, then re-start the timer again once the boil is re-established.
This is something I've been wondering about...I've found that after taking the pot off the heat and adding the late extract addition, then it often takes 10-15 minutes to return to a rolling boil (indoors, electric stove). Does anyone know what implications this would have on the flavour and aroma hops additions? For example, if I have a hops addition at 10 minutes, then add the extract at 5 minutes but it then takes another 15 minutes to return to a boil, the result is the hops have been in very hot (but not quite boiling) wort for much longer than 10 minutes. Will this result in less flavour and/or aroma?
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