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Old 06-04-2012, 09:35 PM   #21
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tre9er, thanks! I'm looking forward to what you find.

cosmo, now that I think about it, the pack of yeast I used for the cream ale was probably close to 6 months old. I did have it in the freezer the whole time, so I don't know if that's considered "old" or not.

NordeastBrewer77, thanks! I'm a horror writer (I think I've told you this before), and I really dig Fright Rags t-shirts. The one in the video is "cereal" killers: Loco Puffs.

That slight tart flavor mentioned in the video: I liked it. That's what threw me off for a second, because I was enjoying the beer more than before, and that new tartness seemed to mask that other flavor I had been tasting.

This is the one with US-05 at 63 degrees, so maybe that was from the yeast, as you said.

The cream ale was only a partial mash, and the American wheat was all extract, which makes me question the effect hard water really would have had then.

I'll PM you about a trade. Thanks again everyone for all the comments! I think we've got it at least narrowed to the yeast or water.



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Old 06-04-2012, 09:39 PM   #22
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Don't think it was mentioned before, but what temp was the wort when you pitched? If the one yeast was in freezer, did it sit out for a while first? On repitches do you warm them up to pitch temp long before pitching? I think the banana flavors I had with chico might have also been due to pitching at 75



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Old 06-04-2012, 09:48 PM   #23
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Don't think it was mentioned before, but what temp was the wort when you pitched? If the one yeast was in freezer, did it sit out for a while first? On repitches do you warm them up to pitch temp long before pitching? I think the banana flavors I had with chico might have also been due to pitching at 75
In my beer log it says I pitched the cream ale at 64 degrees. And I always take the yeast out of the freezer and let it sit out for pretty much the whole time I'm brewing. The American Wheat was pitched at 60 degrees, but that was onto a yeast cake that might have been a bit warmer, since it was sitting out.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:50 PM   #24
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In my beer log it says I pitched the cream ale at 64 degrees. And I always take the yeast out of the freezer and let it sit out for pretty much the whole time I'm brewing. The American Wheat was pitched at 60 degrees, but that was onto a yeast cake that might have been a bit warmer, since it was sitting out.
Well since the two were different scenarios, hard to say pitching environment was the issue. Maybe the dry yeast was stressed by underpitching/being old and less viable and the repitch cake got warm waiting for beer and got stressed...
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:52 PM   #25
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Well since the two were different scenarios, hard to say pitching environment was the issue. Maybe the dry yeast was stressed by underpitching/being old and less viable and the repitch cake got warm waiting for beer and got stressed...
Could be. I will say that the rubber/plastic was more prominent in the American wheat, and as this cream ale is aging, it seems to be dissipating somewhat. In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if the people I send the beer to don't taste it at all.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:39 PM   #26
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That slight tart flavor mentioned in the video: I liked it. That's what threw me off for a second, because I was enjoying the beer more than before, and that new tartness seemed to mask that other flavor I had been tasting.

This is the one with US-05 at 63 degrees, so maybe that was from the yeast, as you said.

The cream ale was only a partial mash, and the American wheat was all extract, which makes me question the effect hard water really would have had then.

I'll PM you about a trade. Thanks again everyone for all the comments! I think we've got it at least narrowed to the yeast or water.
I noticed your first sip, you had this, 'huh, that's not how it tasted before' look.

Hmmm, so the all extract beer shouldn't be affected by hard water I wouldn't think. I've always heard pH isn't nearly as important for extract beer. I never pay attention to that stuff when I do all extract recipes. Hope we're right there! As for the PM recipe, I'm sure how much of an effect hardness would have is dependent on mash size, but I'd think it'd play at least some role. Now I'm really intrigued though. I was thinking these were both PM batches, just from talking with you before, my bad. I'm gonna go drink some beer and see what kind of effect, if any, water high in carbonates has on extract beer. I'm still not thinking it's yeast, but I'm wondering if it's the water since one of these is extract. I'll post back what I find....
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Old 06-04-2012, 10:56 PM   #27
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I'm drinking beer right now too. I find that it makes me happy and a bit giddy

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Old 06-04-2012, 11:57 PM   #28
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I'm drinking beer right now too. I find that it makes me happy and a bit giddy
Ha!!! Funny, I that's exactly what I'm discovering.

And, I also found this thread discussing how hard water can actually influence extract beer. It got me thinking back to when I first started out, I and a couple friends noticed a minerally taste in a couple of my beers, extract w/steeping grain batches. One friend commented on how two of them tasted the same, even though they were different styles. Back then I knew very little about 'off' flavors and since this issue didn't continue, I figured it was part of the learning process. But I did start playing around with water early on because I was convinced that tap water caused off flavors in another early batch. It was at that point that I started boiling my tap water before using, and using spring water or a 50/50 tap/RO mix for lighter beers. My tap water here is Mississippi River water, very high in carbonates, sulphate, and quite alkaline 7.8-8 pH.
Who'd've thunk it..... water may be important in extract beers. I know after reading that thread, I'm going to pay a little closer att'n to the water I use in extract batches. I'm gonna keep reading and drinkin' beer... I'll post back if I find anything else that catches me eye.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:05 AM   #29
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I also found that my kegs are getting empty-erer. Good thing I have three beers fermenting. Think I will brew again tomorrow, just to be on the safe side.

Apparently our water in Lincoln is actually pretty good for brewing. Just a tad hard (but not too alkaline). In fact, a friend adds gypsum when making ESBs for extra hardness.

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Old 06-05-2012, 02:43 AM   #30
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HA! Well I'm glad this thread had a nice outcome (everyone is drinking!)

Oh yeah, that first sip, I absolutely was like, "what just a second..." And you know, be prepared for the possibility that this is just the way the beer is supposed to taste! Ya never know.

I keep coming back to that experiment idea and thinking that, plus a water test, plus these beer trades, should be more than enough to shed some light on the matter.

Question for whoever sent water samples into that site mentioned earlier: did you have to pack it in an ice-filled cooler? The instructions seem to say that you have to ship it in a chilled environment...



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