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Old 01-07-2012, 10:08 PM   #21
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if that works for you, great, keep doing it. but with all due respect, everything i've read says it's a bad idea, and for that reason i'm not gonna try it just to see. again, if it works for you, great, but my palate is sensitive enough to detect things like that. not saying yours isn't, just that mine would be offended by tannins.
I understand that there are a lot of texts that say a lot of things, it has always been that way. I don't really know where that idea originated, and I am sure there are people that have good reasons for saying it is so... My practices are based first hand experiences that I have had both in the brewing industry and at home (both since '89). I have experimented with a number of "facts" that have been written down at some point and parroted along the way, trying to see if there was a discernible affect... a good bit of my experimentation was actually done at the commercial scale where both regular customers and my peers would have a chance to chime in. Why did I do this? It began when I was reading about hot side aeration and thought, "hmm... at Bell's we splashed the hell out of the wort both during lautering and knock out... did our beers go bad? No... WTH?" I have since learned from a Siebel instructor that A/B intentionally aerates hot wort... that really weirded me out, but I had no reason to doubt my friend's statement.

I am not saying that one way or the other is 'better', no... nor am I dissing anyone for what they have learned from the many sources. On the contrary, I give kudos to anyone that has the dedication to read and absorb as much as possible. Good on ya! Anything that drives the passion is great in my book!... the ultimate end of all the fooling around that I have done can be summed up in this one statement; "all that matters is what hits the glass"
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:54 PM   #22
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I am not saying that one way or the other is 'better', no... nor am I dissing anyone for what they have learned from the many sources. On the contrary, I give kudos to anyone that has the dedication to read and absorb as much as possible. Good on ya! Anything that drives the passion is great in my book!... the ultimate end of all the fooling around that I have done can be summed up in this one statement; "all that matters is what hits the glass"
couldn't agree more with that. i think we all have things that we do that bend the "rules" a bit. and we all know that some of what's written is eventually disproven. so if something works, and good beer is the result, you'd be silly not to do it.
on the subject, i've never had a reason to use more than the recommended water/grist ratio. and i know that ratio produces great beer for me, so i stick with it. if it ain't broke, why fix it, right. just as if i found that it made great beer if i tried a 2q/lb or more ratio, and that made my brew day easier, i'd keep doing it. brewing practice is a process of learning through experience.
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can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:29 PM   #23
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tannins aside, extra water while steeping shouldn't make the beer lighter, right?
It depends how much is reduced by the boil volume later. Like if his recipe was meant for a 5 gallon batch but came out with 6 gallons in the fermenter.. It is all about ratio's as mentioned.

But I think it is from not high enough lovibond grains (my brewing software said 27 SRM which is dark brown to black) chocolate and/or black patent accompanied with the other grains would do the trick. Black patent alone is 500 lovibond and used mainly to impart color. I always use these two grains when I do a stout.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:17 AM   #24
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I'm getting 42 SRM from that recipe. This is 5 gallons, right?

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Old 01-08-2012, 10:30 AM   #25
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Not sure what went wrong. This was my first beer. Here's my recipe:

7.1 lbs amber LME
1.0 lb flaked barley
1.0 lb roasted barley
0.5 lb crystal 120L
1.0 lb carapils

2.0 oz perle @ 90min

WLP080 cream yeast blend.

I went to take a gravity reading tonight, and it looks like an amber. Tastes like one, too . Does the recipe above look like it should make a dark beer?
should have bumped up the crystal to 1 lb and added a half pound of chocolate malt and maybe went with dark LME
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:13 PM   #26
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make's perfect sense for steeping grains too. you can add water after the steep to get your boil volume right. if you steep grains in too large a volume of water, even if it's at the right temp, you run the risk of tannin extraction from the husks.
this is flat out wrong. period. end of discussion.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:37 PM   #27
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this is flat out wrong. period. end of discussion.
i'm not going to argue with that. i know i've read more than one publication that says otherwise. i was giving the OP some advice based on what i've read, and how i brewed when i was still brewing extract. maybe it's something that doesn't really apply to extract brewers, i don't know, but when i hear the somethings not the best idea, i'm not one to rush out and try it 'just to see'. nor will i recommend someone else do that. simply trying to help the OP out with his/her question. now let's get back ON TOPIC and try to help the OP out instead of arguing opinion.
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can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:42 PM   #28
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I've also steeped my grains in my full 6 gallon boil for all my extract batches. I've never had any off flavors, and hit my OG gravity quite regularly.

However the same is not true when mashing. It sounds like the OP attempted a partial mash, in which it requires a certain liquor to grist ratio for converting starches. Steeping in 4 gallons will impart color and a very small amount of flavors, but nothing else at that volume of water.

I should mention that I didn't do many partial mashes when I started brewing so I can't be certain if his processes were accurate.

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Old 01-08-2012, 03:49 PM   #29
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should have bumped up the crystal to 1 lb and added a half pound of chocolate malt and maybe went with dark LME
That wouldn't hurt, but it is no way needed. Grain bill as OP listed is pretty much a Guinness clone, with the addition of cara pils and crystal. Has 1# roast barley according to his recipe... that's correct, beer SHOULD be black.

I seriously think that he was given the wrong grain, most likely "special roast" instead of "roast barley"


OP, was a significant portion of the grains very, very dark like coffee beans? Roast barley should be darker than a Hershey bar... special roast is a sort of red-brown
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:53 PM   #30
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this is flat out wrong. period. end of discussion.
I think the theory behind this would be that it is possible, depending on the water, that the PH may not drop low enough and that would lead to tannin extraction.
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