Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > still young or just a bad recipe

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-27-2010, 04:12 PM   #1
stageseven
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Delaware
Posts: 389
Liked 8 Times on 7 Posts

Default still young or just a bad recipe

So I just threw this recipe together because I had a bunch of small quantities of leftover hops, and I wanted something that would be ready quickly and easy to drink. I figured a mild was the way to go. I'm about to bottle, and took a quick sample to taste with my hydro reading. I noticed right away that it smells weird, kind of like molasses. The taste is ok at first, but strongly bitter in the aftertaste with a mix of medicinal phenols and butter. Maybe a little bit grassy too.

It's been in the primary for 3 weeks. I didn't see anything growing that would make me think it was an infection. Everything was sanitized. I just don't think I could drink 5 gallons of this if it doesn't get better.

The recipe was a partial mash. 60 minutes at 155F in 3.44 quarts of water. OG was 1.038, FG 1.014
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2 lbs 8.0 oz Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 47.62 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 28.57 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 19.05 %
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4.76 %
0.60 oz Pearle [7.50 %] (60 min) Hops 14.3 IBU
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 1.6 IBU
1 Pkgs Nottingham (Danstar #-) Yeast-Ale

__________________
stageseven is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-27-2010, 04:54 PM   #2
david_42
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
david_42's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Willamina & Oak Grove, Oregon, USA
Posts: 25,651
Liked 133 Times on 126 Posts

Default

That's a lot of C60L in a small beer, the FG reflects that. But the flavors you are describing should mellow out. Raising it to 75F for a week would help with the butter.

__________________

Remember one unassailable statistic, as explained by the late, great George Carlin: "Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!"

"I would like to die on Mars, just not on impact." Elon Musk

david_42 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2010, 12:27 PM   #3
stageseven
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Delaware
Posts: 389
Liked 8 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Update on this... I'm starting to lean more towards infection. Not sure exactly how that happened unless some dust got in the fermenter while taking the gravity reading. I had a bottle that only got filled halfway, and I was curious about how it was coming along so I chilled it and cracked it open. It had a very strong olive aroma and tasted sharp and vinegary. Looking around here I found out these are both signs of an Acetobacter infection. I'm going to let it ride out for a while, but everything I've read on this type of infection seems to indicate that it won't get better.

So now my question is how crazy do I need to get with cleaning my equipment? I already started soaking the bucket it was fermented in in Oxyclean, which I'll leave in for a few days and then give it a good cleaning with sanitizer. Same thing with all the hoses, bottling bucket, valve, etc. Will this be enough? I'm thinking about picking up a new siphon & hoses, but I'd rather not replace all my equipment if I'm just being paranoid.

__________________
stageseven is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2010, 01:12 PM   #4
wyzazz
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Atwater, OH
Posts: 4,263
Liked 39 Times on 39 Posts
Likes Given: 48

Default

If it's an infection you'll know it, it will taste like "Satan's Anus" as they say. I'm thinking it's just a bad brew, as David said that's an @$$load of C60 in a really small beer.

If you want to get anal about cleaning because you think you had an infection then I would replace all your hoses/spigots. Everything else break down and soak in a properly diluted bleach solution for a few days, then rinse like there is no tomorrow, and re-soak in Oxiclean for a few more days, rinse again and you should be good to go.

I'm in the habit of storing my unused equipment (buckets, fermenters, etc...) with a little bit of starsan in the bottom. Every time I walk by I give them a swirl/shake just because.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
And I'd like to see my 1.080 beers ready from grain to glass in a week, and served to me by red-headed twin penthouse pets wearing garter belts and fishnet stockings, with Irish accents, calling me "master luv gun," but we can't always get what we want can we? :)
wyzazz is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2010, 01:23 PM   #5
pkeeler
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 740
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Do you like hoppy beer? That is a lot of hops for that OG. If you are not drinking Imperial IPA everyday, the hop taste might be what you are tasting. Your original post sort of led me to think of yeast problems, specifically, diacetyl. How do you aerate your wort?

It is possible the open packages of hops went bad. Did they smell fresh and were they green? Or did they smell off and were brownish?

I think you would get better IBUs out of the hops, for instance, I would calculate IBUs from your Perle addition at 20 IBU.

Having caramel malt at 15-20% of the wort will also lead to caramel sweetness.

I think you underpitched or didn't aerate enough. This might have led to an infection, but probably is the cause of the off flavors/aromas. Let it condition in the bottles at a good yeast temp for awhile, time and yeast can fix many problems.

__________________
pkeeler is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2010, 01:42 PM   #6
stageseven
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Delaware
Posts: 389
Liked 8 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Well, yes, I do like hoppy beers. I just cracked a bottle of Hop Slam yesterday and have a Pliny clone in bottles. However, the beersmith calculations put the whole thing at 19.4 IBUs.

The hops were not that old, the brews they were left over from were done about 2 weeks prior, and they were taped shut and put in a freezer bag back in the freezer. They smelled normal from what I remember.

I doubt underpitching was an issue. A full package of Notty in a <1.040 beer should be plenty. Aeration may have been a factor, but I did it the same way I've done all my other beers - pour through a plastic collander and end up with 3-4 inches of foam on top. It's not the most scientific method, but I've never had a problem before.

I get that the 60L is a bit high, but this is definitely not a sweet taste. I actually got that quantity from Orfy's Mild Mannered Ale btw. This smells like olives and tastes like olives and vinegar. I'm still going to let it sit, my question at this point isn't about whether it's infected or not. I'm more concerned with how to clean my equipment in the meantime so that if it IS an infection, I don't have the same problem with my next batches.

__________________
stageseven is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2010, 05:50 PM   #7
pkeeler
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 740
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Don't scour anything plastic. Soft sponges are all that should be used. Hard brushes can be used on glass. The scouring part of a brillo sponge can be used on metal surfaces. If you scour plastic, you will make millions of little grooves that are perfect for bacteria.

I would fill a big bucket with 1 tbsp of bleach per gallon, and soak everything (assuming it is clean).

I don't think you are getting enough aeration. What you do is a good start. But you should stir the wort vigorously for three minutes. You can shake the fermenter good every hour for 4-5 hours too. You cannot aerate enough at that point. You probably got lucky with prior batches. This time the yeast was a little older or less fresh or something.

So, soak your equipment and aerate your next pitch better and I think you will be fine.

__________________
pkeeler is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-06-2010, 05:54 PM   #8
pkeeler
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 740
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

BTW, if somehow wild vinegar yeasts got into your beer, malt vinegar is great on french fries (well, at least the English think so, I prefer ketchup).

__________________
pkeeler is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2010, 06:02 PM   #9
stageseven
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Delaware
Posts: 389
Liked 8 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Thanks for the suggestions. I have the bucket in question and some other stuff soaking in the bleach solution now, hopefully it's unnecessary, but it can't hurt to have everything sterilized anyway.

__________________
stageseven is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
have to teach them young springer Home Brewing Photo Forum 5 04-03-2009 05:39 PM
trying a young beer newbrewr4fun Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 22 07-25-2008 05:03 AM
My Hefeweizen Was Best REALLY Young polamalu43 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 04-11-2008 04:40 PM
Too young to brew?? Ewalk02 General Techniques 66 04-02-2008 02:09 PM