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Old 04-04-2011, 06:17 AM   #31
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Thanks. I don'lt think I can get Star-san here anyway because I don't think you can mail that type of acid. I'll try to find iodophor if I can. Would you suggest things like wearing a surgeon's mask or I guess sanatizing counters where you transfer the wort and all?
The surgeon's mask is over the top, IMO, but you do need to sanitize everything that touches the wort after it is boiled.

Can you describe the off taste a little better? You did say astringent, but I'm wondering if you are confusing it with something that is solventy, medicinal or like burnt rubber. Here is a link to some common off flavors and causes:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:14 AM   #32
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The surgeon's mask is over the top, IMO, but you do need to sanitize everything that touches the wort after it is boiled.

Can you describe the off taste a little better? You did say astringent, but I'm wondering if you are confusing it with something that is solventy, medicinal or like burnt rubber. Here is a link to some common off flavors and causes:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html
It's hard to describe. I'd say bitter but not good hoppy bitter. A guy has said its like bad bananas. He's also said possibly astrigent.
I WANT the problem to be not enough yeast or bad quality yeast, as I feel I've done everything else, but it doens seem my sanitation is not 100%.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:38 AM   #33
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Sounds like you might be using too much sanitizer and not adequately removing the residue??

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Old 04-04-2011, 10:53 AM   #34
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I would try a different yeast just to see what happens. Can you get liquid yeast? If not get a good dry yeast, like nottingham, or safale. If that doesnt change anything, change another variable in your brewing. Change one thing at a time, leaving the others the same so you can pinpoint the problem.
Before i started using starsan, i used one step and didnt have any problems, but to add to what binkman said, make sure you are using the proper ratio of sanitizer to water.
Keep trying, and reporting here, and asking questions. We'll get this figured out.

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Old 04-04-2011, 12:13 PM   #35
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It's hard to describe. I'd say bitter but not good hoppy bitter. A guy has said its like bad bananas. He's also said possibly astrigent.
Correct me if I'm wrong here - but banana-like flavors are typically caused by something going on during fermentation... Different yeasts can and will impact this, but most banana flavors I've heard of have been related to too-warm fermentation temps.

How confident are you that the fermenter is really staying around 65? I'm going to go out on a limb and say the bad bananas flavor probably came from one of the earlier batches; you did mention those fermented around 80, right?

Bottom line, if you're confident that you're keeping the temp consistently around 65, I'd definitely look to something other than muntons yeast - Safale makes a good variety of quality dry yeasts, and none of them have done me wrong yet, while I've heard mixed reviews on Munton's.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:56 PM   #36
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my first 5 batches had a similar " bitter taste" like what you say. You know it is not from the hops but can pass it off as that to someone who does not know. Is it making the beer undrinkeable or just "off" and "not right" and therefore you want it gone. I changed 3 things in my process and 7 batches after I have not had that taste once.

1. I stopped using my tap water and went to spring water( but you already use this so I doubt that is it).

2. Stopped using just 1step. and added starsan to my brew day.( should be able to get it mine was mailed to me)

3. I learned patience. I used to check gravity and transfer to secondary as soon as the bubbles stopped in airlock. now I w8 2-3 weeks before even checking gravity. I think this was the biggest helper. giving the yeast time to clean up after themselves.(and some would say i need to w8 even longer)

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Old 04-04-2011, 06:47 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by togodoug View Post
Thanks. I don'lt think I can get Star-san here anyway because I don't think you can mail that type of acid. I'll try to find iodophor if I can. Would you suggest things like wearing a surgeon's mask or I guess sanatizing counters where you transfer the wort and all?
You don't need to go that far. Just be conscious about what is touching your wort or getting close to it. For example, your hands. You need to sanitize them because they touch stuff that will touch the wort. Anything that touches the wort or comes close must be sanitized.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:05 PM   #38
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Do you have 2 threads on the same issue? I thought you said in the other thread that you were using half bottled water and half tap water and ice cubes...

It sounds to me that your sanitation practices are fine. Some people just go overboard with this.

Since all of your beers seem to have the same bad taste, then the problem is likely something that has been consistent in your process, not infection or wild yeasts.

Generally, the best way to troubleshoot an issue is to change one thing in your process at a time. But things like pitching & fermentation temp and sanitation need to be right and consistent throughout.

Here's my suggestions for your next batch:

1. Brew something mildly hopped, like an american pale ale. Use Safale yeast with it instead of the Muntons. As someone else mentioned in one of the threads, kits with DME seem to get better taste reviews than LME.
2. Use all RO or distilled water. The guy who said the opposite is flat out wrong. All the necessary yeast nutrients are already in the extract.
3. Pitch and ferment below 70F.
4. Take gravity reads to determine when to bottle but let it sit in the primary for at least 3 weeks without touching it first.
5. Let it condition in the bottle for at least 4 weeks.

I can't speak to the One Step vs Star-San vs Iodophor question. I use Star San and am happy with it. I keep a spray bottle of it handy to give everthing a once over.

Follow these steps and your beer should improve. If it still tastes bad after that, then we at least have a good basis to work from.

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Old 04-05-2011, 01:57 AM   #39
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Do you have 2 threads on the same issue? I thought you said in the other thread that you were using half bottled water and half tap water and ice cubes...

It sounds to me that your sanitation practices are fine. Some people just go overboard with this.

Since all of your beers seem to have the same bad taste, then the problem is likely something that has been consistent in your process, not infection or wild yeasts.

Generally, the best way to troubleshoot an issue is to change one thing in your process at a time. But things like pitching & fermentation temp and sanitation need to be right and consistent throughout.

Here's my suggestions for your next batch:

1. Brew something mildly hopped, like an american pale ale. Use Safale yeast with it instead of the Muntons. As someone else mentioned in one of the threads, kits with DME seem to get better taste reviews than LME.
2. Use all RO or distilled water. The guy who said the opposite is flat out wrong. All the necessary yeast nutrients are already in the extract.
3. Pitch and ferment below 70F.
4. Take gravity reads to determine when to bottle but let it sit in the primary for at least 3 weeks without touching it first.
5. Let it condition in the bottle for at least 4 weeks.

I can't speak to the One Step vs Star-San vs Iodophor question. I use Star San and am happy with it. I keep a spray bottle of it handy to give everthing a once over.

Follow these steps and your beer should improve. If it still tastes bad after that, then we at least have a good basis to work from.
thanks and yes I had two threads under two different topics. I am Desperate!
I willl go with SAFALE yeast when it arrives. Thoughts on dry pitching or rehydrating it first?
What is OR water?The water I used claims to use sediment filtration, ion exchanger, activated carbon filtration, revers osmosis, ozonation and ultra violate sterilization.
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Old 04-05-2011, 02:00 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by tchuklobrau View Post
my first 5 batches had a similar " bitter taste" like what you say. You know it is not from the hops but can pass it off as that to someone who does not know. Is it making the beer undrinkeable or just "off" and "not right" and therefore you want it gone. I changed 3 things in my process and 7 batches after I have not had that taste once.

1. I stopped using my tap water and went to spring water( but you already use this so I doubt that is it).

2. Stopped using just 1step. and added starsan to my brew day.( should be able to get it mine was mailed to me)

3. I learned patience. I used to check gravity and transfer to secondary as soon as the bubbles stopped in airlock. now I w8 2-3 weeks before even checking gravity. I think this was the biggest helper. giving the yeast time to clean up after themselves.(and some would say i need to w8 even longer)
thanks.As to point 3, I've used one 5 oz pack of Muton, could that betoo little and not good yeast?
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