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Sea_of_Shells · 12-04-2012, 09:59 PM

I figured I'd chime in here. Recently, I learned the importance of pitching rate. Overworked yeast tend to make awful tasting beers. Are you making yeast starters? What are the estimated abv of the beers you have already brewed?

togodoug · 12-05-2012, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sea_of_shells

i figured i'd chime in here. Recently, i learned the importance of pitching rate. Overworked yeast tend to make awful tasting beers. Are you making yeast starters? What are the estimated abv of the beers you have already brewed?

i use dry yeast

**Ogri** · 12-05-2012, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea_of_Shells

I figured I'd chime in here. Recently, I learned the importance of pitching rate. Overworked yeast tend to make awful tasting beers. Are you making yeast starters? What are the estimated abv of the beers you have already brewed?

Yeah, but usually that kind of off flavour will be apparent at bottling, if you taste the sample, wouldn't it?

Sea_of_Shells · 12-05-2012, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by togodoug

i use dry yeast

It doesn't matter whether it's dry yeast or liquid yeast, the viability of yeast in kits is always pretty low (at least in my experience). My advice going forward would be to pick up a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask (about $15 on Amazon) and start making yeast starters. There is a ton of information on them on this site, and Youtube is full of videos on how to make them. If your beer is over, say, 1.050 OG, I'd say you need to make a starter if you want a decent pitch rate. It's just one extra step that can exponentially increase the quality of your beer. Happy yeast make happy beer.

**brewguyver** · 12-05-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea_of_Shells

It doesn't matter whether it's dry yeast or liquid yeast, the viability of yeast in kits is always pretty low (at least in my experience). My advice going forward would be to pick up a 2 liter Erlenmeyer flask (about $15 on Amazon) and start making yeast starters. There is a ton of information on them on this site, and Youtube is full of videos on how to make them. If your beer is over, say, 1.050 OG, I'd say you need to make a starter if you want a decent pitch rate. It's just one extra step that can exponentially increase the quality of your beer. Happy yeast make happy beer.

Almost everything I've read says to not make starters of dry yeast. Manufacturers go to a lot of effort to dry them with the right concentrations of sugars and nutrients to jump start the fermentation process. Putting them in a starter leads to exhaustion rather than propagation - recommended approach is to rehydrate in sterilized (boiled) distiller water that has been cooled to correct temps.

That said, Sea's main point is still correct. You may need to rehydrate and use more packets to hit your target pitch rates.

togodoug · 12-06-2012, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewguyver

Almost everything I've read says to not make starters of dry yeast. Manufacturers go to a lot of effort to dry them with the right concentrations of sugars and nutrients to jump start the fermentation process. Putting them in a starter leads to exhaustion rather than propagation - recommended approach is to rehydrate in sterilized (boiled) distiller water that has been cooled to correct temps.

That said, Sea's main point is still correct. You may need to rehydrate and use more packets to hit your target pitch rates.

I'm getting more confused. This last time the batch bubbled for abut 18 days and the FG was where is should be (don't remember) so I'm wondering why yeast is suspected?
I don't use kits and usually use us-05. I just can't get liquid yeast.
It seems most people think its sanitation. I don't like that idea because I think I'm doing all I can, including changing siphon tubes and fermentation bucket. This brings me to two questions:
1. If its yeast v. bacteria, can someone describe the difference in taste? What does infection taste like and what does bad yeast taste like?
2. Has anyone thought of oxidation? I have noticed some air bubbles in my siphon tube, it can come in where the tube attaches to the auto siphon. I have also sloshed the wort a lot, poured it to transfer bucket while still about 100 degrees and put it in an ice bath and spun it (like a champaigne bottle in an ice chill at a restaurant I can't afford). I wonder if this could be the issue? I've used this method of chilling a few times, some of them came out fine so I doubt it. The air in the siphon hose I wonder about. What would oxidation taste like?

**Ogri** · 12-06-2012, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by togodoug

What would oxidation taste like?

Ever drunk sherry?? Compare that to a nice, freshly opened bottle of wine and you'll get a rough idea of how oxidized wine tastes. Oxidized beer is supposed to resemble wet cardboard in the flavour department.

togodoug · 12-06-2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogri

Ever drunk sherry?? Compare that to a nice, freshly opened bottle of wine and you'll get a rough idea of how oxidized wine tastes. Oxidized beer is supposed to resemble wet cardboard in the flavour department.

I know this is tough, thanks. I'd say more astringent, like a tea bag, but don't know that you can't say cardboard. The smell is not good and the after taste just hangs.

acidrain · 12-06-2012, 07:16 AM

OK, I've read through the entire thread...
To me, this sounds like an infection. A re-occurring one.
When asked about your cleaning and sanitizing practices, you always say I sanitize like xxxx.
Cleaning and sanitizing are two different things.

Once, you mentioned using dish soap, and many times you've mentioned using a sponge.
There is no need to ever use a sponge.
Contaminated plastic will harbor bacteria.

Cleaning:
Replace used plastic buckets, hoses, etc.
Use a fresh, clean wash cloth.
Use oxy-clean/water only to clean equipment.
Take apart everything to clean (bottling spigots, hose from cane, etc.). Disassemble everything.
Use a bottle brush and oxy-clean to clean bottles really good.
Rinse everything with clean (sanitary) water and allow to dry upside down.

Sanitizing:
Use sterile gloves.
Since your water is so questionable, I would opt for Star-San, since it's a true no-rinse sanitizer (Iodofor should be rinsed, and the no-rinse that comes in the kit is not a sanitizer).
Mix a 5-gallon bucket full, and fully submerge stuff that fits in the bucket.
Use a spray bottle to sanitize everything else.
Don't rinse the Star-San... it's un-flavored, and is actually good for the yeast.
Transfer wort directly onto Star-San wetted buckets, hoses, canes etc. Bottle onto freshly dipped Star-San bottles.

Don't fear the foam.
IMHO, you've GOT to get your hands on some Star-San and some fresh plastic-ware.

togodoug · 12-06-2012, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acidrain

Don't fear the foam.
IMHO, you've GOT to get your hands on some Star-San and some fresh plastic-ware.

When I sanatize with iodophor I don't rinse after. I put the wort in the bucket still wet, run it all through the tubes and don't flush it with water, just run it through, and fill and submurge the bottles, then empty them after being full for a few minutes and then fill with beer. I had thought Iodophor was also a no rinse sanatizer?