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Old 12-03-2012, 10:13 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceparadis View Post
Change your sanitizer, sounds like your not rinse throughly enough.
Is there an issue with this sanitizer? I had used One Step and was assured Iodiphore wass the way to go


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Old 12-04-2012, 04:03 AM   #222
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Okay, I've read this entire thread and learned many things! I kinda have the same thing going on (bitter astringent) off flavor after bottling. Just a suggestion so your not wasting $30-$40 plus shipping on all these kits. just get some DME and some hops (I'm sure one of the veterans here can give you a recipe) do some 3 gallon or even 1 gallon batches so you can do a little testing without having to dump 5 gallons of beer?

Right now I have a 3 gallon batch with 3.5# extra light DME and crystal hops. I pitched at a 74 and am fermenting around 67. I'm also using a different fermentor. It had a bitterness at from the hydro sample but I think that might be hops.



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Old 12-04-2012, 04:08 AM   #223
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OK - I only read about 11 pages of this, so I apologies in advance if you have to repeat. A lot of this could be overkill, but I'm taking a "doctor at a loss" approach and perscribing broad spectrum brewing antibiotics. Some of the stuff here wasn't covered in what I read, while others are restating. My biggest suspicions are as follows #'s 1,2,5,6, and 10 below. Any one of these could contribute

Here are the areas I could see a potential problem.

#1 - Bad/Stale LME
Not sure if this would actually cause your problem, but weird sweetness or stale flavor can come from old liquid extract. Given you're on an island and they probably don't refrigerate the extract on the boat over, that could be a problem. If your weather is cooler around the time that your 2 good beers were made, i'd bet that as a contributing factor

#2 - Stubborn infection in your fermenting/bottling equipment:
Some infections are damn near impossible to kill. Your yeast would outcompete the bugs during regular fermentation, and you might not notice them at bottling. However after priming sugar and a few months in the bottle, they'd have time to grow and cause problems. I had a few of my lower ABV english bitters go south because of this - half the bottles were good, and half had this weird, bitter, twangy aftertaste. I had the same problem with kegged beer until i thoroughly scrubbed everything, soaked in PBW, rinsed, and sanatized. The only way to get rid of infected plastic, however, is to get new plastic components .

#3 - lingering speck of something in bottles:
If you're getting the problem from every bottle, this is not the issue. However a little dust is all it takes. This also goes for the jugs of RO or distilled water - you need to iodiophore the outside of the jugs (60 seconds contact) before you open them and pour them in.

#4 - Oxidation due to temp control around bottles
According to JZ, bottlecaps are not a perfect seal. If your bottles are in an area where there are a lot of hot and cold changes (high temp during day, low temp at night) it will change the pressure in the bottle, and that can suck in oxygen from outside air. I doubt this is your issue either, but it could be a contributing factor.

#5 - cleaning residue left in bottles or on equipment:
You should be able to tell this one right away. I think this is a partial problem given the way you explained an off taste from trying a bottle during bottling. Some people hate soap and water ... I've never had a problem ... but you have to rinse the bottles REALLY WELL. Also, residual Idiophore leaves a nasty taste. My recommendation (if you can get it) is to switch from soap/water or one step to Powdered Brewery Wash. Soak your bottles in it for 30 minutes, rinse multiple times, and then sanatize with San Star, Idiophore, or ez clean (last resort). Also, if you can get a sanatizer injector and a bottle tree. The injector will use less sanatizer, and the tree helps it drain out. You want to use no more than 1/2 oz per 5 gallons of water.

#6 - you're getting contaminated tap water or tap water flavors in the beer:
I hate to say this because of $, but if you're not already using the cheap(ish) RO water to mix all your cleaning chemicals, and to rinse your bottles out. Cloudy sanatizers are typically bad sanatizers (at least in the case of san star) - your seeing precipitate from the sanatizer reacting with your water, which means it's less effective.

#7 - Astringency
Technically heat is not the problem here. You could mash up to boiling with steeping grains if you wanted to (not that you should). As a number of folks have pointed out, if heat = astringency, then decoction mash wouldn't be done. *However* heat plus high water PH will definitely cause astringency. If you can't figure out the problem another way, this could be it. Get a test strips and a food grade acid mix. If your water is high PH (over 5) you need to adjust it. One caveat to this is that decoction mashing is done with base malts - this may not hold as true for steeping malts. Just to be safe though, get your temp down to 150ish.

8 - Extract twang
If your LME is not pre-hopped, you probably don't need to add it at 60 minutes. It's already been mashed, turned into wort, and boiled down to syrup. Putting the LME in for less time (last 20 minutes) should be fine. If the LME gets on the bottom of your pot it could scortch, which will leave a bitter, almost burnt flavor.

9 - Boil:
You could be seeing a problem if you're not getting a good boil. Is there any way you can get an outdoor cooker and propane tank out where you are? It'll save you a lot of sanity (much faster heating times), and you can do full boils.

10 - Old Hops
I can't tell you exactly what old hops taste like, but I've read that it ain't good. If your hops aren't coming in a foil reflective bag, or there is an indication they're over a year old and haven't been refrigerated, that could be causing some of your problems too.

11. Put beer pot in ice water, rather than pouring ice water in beer
This is painfully expensive, and less effective, but it will keep any bugs from the ice out of your beer. Chill the boiled wort first, then add your jugs of Distilled water (cool them in the fridge) and you should see a significant difference.

12. Boil with the lid OFF
I doubt this is a problem with extract, but I've heard that you can get "DMS" stuck in the beer if you don't let it boil off.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help - I've traded my beaches for rivers and bridges. Good for brewing, bad for vitamin D production!

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Old 12-04-2012, 04:09 AM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
Okay, I've read this entire thread and learned many things! I kinda have the same thing going on (bitter astringent) off flavor after bottling. Just a suggestion so your not wasting $30-$40 plus shipping on all these kits. just get some DME and some hops (I'm sure one of the veterans here can give you a recipe) do some 3 gallon or even 1 gallon batches so you can do a little testing without having to dump 5 gallons of beer?

Right now I have a 3 gallon batch with 3.5# extra light DME and crystal hops. I pitched at a 74 and am fermenting around 67. I'm also using a different fermentor. It had a bitterness at from the hydro sample but I think that might be hops.
This is a very good call.

Littlejoe - yep, that sounds like hop bitterness.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:43 AM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
Okay, I've read this entire thread and learned many things! I kinda have the same thing going on (bitter astringent) off flavor after bottling. Just a suggestion so your not wasting $30-$40 plus shipping on all these kits. just get some DME and some hops (I'm sure one of the veterans here can give you a recipe) do some 3 gallon or even 1 gallon batches so you can do a little testing without having to dump 5 gallons of beer?

Right now I have a 3 gallon batch with 3.5# extra light DME and crystal hops. I pitched at a 74 and am fermenting around 67. I'm also using a different fermentor. It had a bitterness at from the hydro sample but I think that might be hops.
I've done the DME make my own recipe route.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:14 AM   #226
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[QUOTE=brewguyver;4647265]OK - I only read about 11 pages of this, so I apologies in advance if you have to repeat. A lot of this could be overkill, but I'm taking a "doctor at a loss" approach and perscribing broad spectrum brewing antibiotics. Some of the stuff here wasn't covered in what I read, while others are restating. My biggest suspicions are as follows #'s 1,2,5,6, and 10 below. Any one of these could contribute

Thaks for the advise, some of these I can elminate right off:
#1 - Bad/Stale LME
This last batch was all DME

#2 - Stubborn infection in your fermenting/bottling equipment:
I did replace my plastic fermentor and siphoning tubes
#3 - lingering speck of something in bottles:
Its in every bottel after a certain period of time.

#4 - Oxidation due to temp control around bottles
I keep the bottles in a cooler with a quart bottle of frozen water change morning and night.

#5 - cleaning residue left in bottles or on equipment:
I usually wash empty bottles with soap and water then rinse 4 or 5 times, then store in a closed box until I sanatize by completely filling with Iodorphor just before bottling buy filling / submerging bottles in my brew pot full of Iodophor and then emptying it into the brew ot just before filling the bottles .


#6 - you're getting contaminated tap water or tap water flavors in the beer:
I mix the Iodophor with tap water. Its high mineral I know because its tough on the shower head. I don't know the make up. It tastes okay, but I nor most people drink it.

#7 - Astringency
Technically heat is not the problem here.
I've used a few different water combos and don't know the PH.

8 - Extract twang
I've used DME and late added it, or late add some of it.


9 - Boil:
I did a good strong boil I think and use an outside gas flame, uncovered as ou suggest.

10 - Old Hops
they are in air tight foil bags from Midwest and don't really know how old they are. I refrigerate before using.

11. Put beer pot in ice water, rather than pouring ice water in beer
This is painfully expensive, and less effective, but it will keep any bugs from the ice out of your beer. Chill the boiled wort first, then add your jugs of Distilled water (cool them in the fridge) and you should see a significant difference.
Not sure I understand this suggestion.

12. Boil with the lid OFF
I do

Does this help you help me?

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Old 12-04-2012, 05:17 AM   #227
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Quote:
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This is a very good call.

Littlejoe - yep, that sounds like hop bitterness.
Hop bitterness would develop after 3 weeks in the bottle? I used 1 oz Cascade at 60, 30 and 5 min.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:27 AM   #228
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I was referring to the hop bitterness from littlejoe's batch, not yours. Sorry for the confusion.

Regarding your post above, try mixing the iodophor with the RO water, and putting your bottles upside down to drain for a few minutes before bottling. Also make sure you aren't mixing the iodophor too strong.

Regarding bottle storage, they need to be at ferment temps (68ish) for 3-6 weeks to get full carb. Also make sure the bottles are stored upright - you can get weird (metallic) flavors from the caps.

Finally, you may want to give Midwest an email and see if they have any ideas. They may have other intl. customers with similar issues.

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Old 12-04-2012, 02:13 PM   #229
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Forgot to answer your question on the ice. Basically make an ice bath for your hit pot and place the pot in the ice bath, rather than putting ice directly into your wort. Cool the wort to 80 or so, then add distilled water to your wort from fridge temps to top off.

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Old 12-04-2012, 06:42 PM   #230
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His water with bacteria would be easy to test. He could simply sanatize a bottle, put in it some sugar and some water and put a loose cover on it like a yeast starter. If the water is bad, then after a couple of weeks, the FG of the solution should be 1.000, and taste should be off, etc. I'm think about the size of a yeast starter, so like 100grams of sugar with 1 liter of water - or I think about 1/2cup? with 32 oz? I think that is right ratio.

Basically you are trying to make a growth medium similar to, but not identical to beer, and out of as inexpensive materials as possible.



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