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Old 09-21-2011, 05:05 AM   #131
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I think I solved my taste. Which is the same as yours. The three things I changed.

1. Started pitching at 60.
2. Kept the wort at a constant 64 during first week of fermentation. Not the ambient, but the wort itself.

3. And I think a big one.. OXYGENATING. I don't think shaking was cutting it. Started using pure o2 and a diffusing stone.

I can update once I test this batch that is close to racking. I did a batch like this with wort from Bell's Brewery and the off flavor wasn't in that one.

It wasn't my water at all, but some styles masked it.

So I was pitching a bit warm, only controlling ambient temp, and not getting enough o2 in there!

3.
I've always oxiginated by stirring like crazy. I don't know how to really control the wart temp, but have the ambient to 60 to 68 by keeping it in a cooler with water in it and I can control the water temp that surrounds teh fermenter.
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Old 09-21-2011, 05:49 AM   #132
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extract TWANG!

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Primary: Petite Saison d'Ete (Bretted), Good Tennis Red IPA
Secondary: Saison, Belgian Strong Dark, Sour Graff (on Cherries), Flander's Red, The Screeching Locust Sour Rye Brown
Bottled: Butternut Autumn Ale, Groundhog's Shadow 2010-2011, Boil Order Imperial Porter
Kegged: Third Eye Pale Ale, Orange Wheat
http://reverendtenhigh.blogspot.com for all my brews and views (Needs updating)

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Old 10-13-2011, 10:54 PM   #133
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Problem. As I said, at bottling the beer tasted good, very good. Three days later was good, and for the next few weeks great. It mellowed and was great. I used cascade hops and the aroma was great and strong, the after bit very nice like a smooth aromatic IPA. I mean other than one particular beer at a brew pub in Atlanta (320), this was the best beer I’d ever tasted. I was so pleased to really be brewing good beer.
By week four it tastes like crap. It tastes like all the other beers I’ve made: sour, no aroma, no character, just bad. All with different recipes and ingredients, yet all had the same bad after taste and smell. This batch I had “fixed” with better water. Open a bottle and the Cascade hops just popped out into the room. It was just a great ale. Now after a few weeks, about 4, in bottles it tastes like crap. Any ideas? After a year is it just time to give up? Ageing temperature? Bacteria? I can’t tell you how frustrating and expensive this is.

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Old 10-13-2011, 11:26 PM   #134
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Problem. As I said, at bottling the beer tasted good, very good. Three days later was good, and for the next few weeks great. It mellowed and was great. I used cascade hops and the aroma was great and strong, the after bit very nice like a smooth aromatic IPA. I mean other than one particular beer at a brew pub in Atlanta (320), this was the best beer I’d ever tasted. I was so pleased to really be brewing good beer.
By week four it tastes like crap. It tastes like all the other beers I’ve made: sour, no aroma, no character, just bad. All with different recipes and ingredients, yet all had the same bad after taste and smell. This batch I had “fixed” with better water. Open a bottle and the Cascade hops just popped out into the room. It was just a great ale. Now after a few weeks, about 4, in bottles it tastes like crap. Any ideas? After a year is it just time to give up? Ageing temperature? Bacteria? I can’t tell you how frustrating and expensive this is.

I'm with ya man. Approaching a year here and have yet to make 1 good beer. We can't give up now. Just think of all the things we are learning NOT to do. By the time we get it right, our beer will be out of this world. I'd be happy with having beer that is drinkable for 1-3 weeks like you are getting now =) The last one I bottled make me want to barf as I was bottling.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:31 AM   #135
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I'm with ya man. Approaching a year here and have yet to make 1 good beer. We can't give up now. Just think of all the things we are learning NOT to do. By the time we get it right, our beer will be out of this world. I'd be happy with having beer that is drinkable for 1-3 weeks like you are getting now =) The last one I bottled make me want to barf as I was bottling.
Some folks have liked my beer but I don't know why. All recepies taste the same, smell the same. This one was good for 10 days the developed the same astreigent off sour flavor. Most people on this site think its sanitation. I think I sanatize well, but have shnaged all ingredients including water. This last one was with better water and so so 10 dyas I was 100% aure it was water. N!))!))& hks AYS, THEN DEVELOPED THE SOUR ASTRINGENT OFF FLAVORH
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:09 PM   #136
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togodoug - you said you think you sanitize well, but can you elaborate? Specifically, what process do you use (what sanitizer, how do you use it, etc) for your bottles and caps? Also, describe your bottling process - including cleaning/sanitizing of all the bottling equipment.

Your description sounds like that's a likely culprit - if the beer is good before it hits the bottle, but then develops sour notes after being in the bottle for more than a few weeks, my gut tells me that something's getting in there during the bottling process... Could be the siphon you use to transfer to the bottling bucket, the bucket or spigot itself, the bottling wand, the bottles, or the caps... But giving a full rundown of what you do with each of those might help pinpoint something.

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Old 10-15-2011, 12:57 PM   #137
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togodoug, can you hold an empty bottle up to some light and observe the fill line? If there is a ring or some haze at that region of the neck, then your beer probably became infected in the bottle. If you have that ring, it can be hard to remove, but you must, or you will continue to contaminate future batches. Soaking in oxy clean (the same as one-step) and scrubbing with a bottle brush should remove the haze. If any film or residue remains, beer packaged in these bottles will also become bacterially infected.

These bacteria will produce some lactic acid which will give your beer a sharp sour bite. Now to find out how they got in there. After fermenting, the beer should only touch sanitized surfaces. Bottling bucket, spigot, racking/siphon equipment, bottling wand, hoses, bottles and caps need to be clean (no film, dirt, or debris of any kind) and sanitized prior to bottling. Do not start a siphon with your mouth- this is a recipe for contamination. The outside of the siphon tube needs to be sanitized, too, as it will be submerged in the fermenter. The outside of the hose and bottling wand need to be sanitized as well as the inside.

If you don't have a ring inside some of the off-tasting bottles, then I am running out of ideas. It sounds like you're almost there with your description of a great tasting beer. I hope you can make it all the way home with beer that tastes great from the first bottle to the last!

Best wishes.

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Old 10-15-2011, 11:09 PM   #138
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I

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Old 10-16-2011, 12:46 AM   #139
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there is no ring in the bottles. I sanatize by mixing 3 gallons of Iodophor in my bottelingbucket. I submurge and fill all botttles 6 or so at a tiem and leave them in the solution for 1 to 3 minutes, empty tehbottles back inot the buck and repeat until I have 55 bottles. I run some solution through the spigot, run some tghrough the syphone, and submure the syphone. I then wipe the buck with the solutoin in it up to the top with a sponge that has been soaking in it. Then I pour out the solution. The caps are in a bowl of solution until used. I puti the sugaar in a sanatized pan with 1 cup water abd boil for 15 min, let cool, put it in the bucket, syphone into the bucket and fill bottles with spigot, then cap.

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Old 10-16-2011, 12:50 AM   #140
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togodoug - you said you think you sanitize well, but can you elaborate? Specifically, what process do you use (what sanitizer, how do you use it, etc) for your bottles and caps? Also, describe your bottling process - including cleaning/sanitizing of all the bottling equipment.

Your description sounds like that's a likely culprit - if the beer is good before it hits the bottle, but then develops sour notes after being in the bottle for more than a few weeks, my gut tells me that something's getting in there during the bottling process... Could be the siphon you use to transfer to the bottling bucket, the bucket or spigot itself, the bottling wand, the bottles, or the caps... But giving a full rundown of what you do with each of those might help pinpoint something.
I just posted my process. Having computer issues. Assume bacteria in some part of bottling. This would effect Every Bottle in 7 consective batches?
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