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Old 12-17-2011, 10:57 PM   #1
yellowthunda
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Default Steepin Specialty Grains: Extract and All Grain

i read somewhere when steeping specialty grains, it is recommended to steep no more than 30 min due to extracting unwanted astringent tanins. similar to a teabag left in too long which would leave a dry puckering taste.

when i brew with extract i steep less than 30 min and add the extract after

But why is it when you brew all grain, its okay to mash with specialty grains for an hour. wouldn't it leave a tanins in the wort. wouldnt the proper way be to steep specialty grains separately and then mash the grains that can be converted to sugar

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Old 12-17-2011, 11:27 PM   #2
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I know, it goes against what you learned for extract brews, but it doesn't hurt anything to mash them. Couldn't tell you what the difference is. However, I do steep some grains even when brewing all grain. For instance I prefer to steep darker roasted grains like roasted barley, chocolate malt, stuff like that. I find that the beer comes out smoother than when I mash them. All my lighter grains and crystals get thrown in the mash.

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Old 12-17-2011, 11:50 PM   #3
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thanks for the quick reply
answered all my questions

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Old 12-18-2011, 12:03 AM   #4
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There is a difference between malted barley conditioned for mashing and grains conditioned for steeping. The steeping grains are like instant rice, oatmill, etc. Somebody got them ready for quick use. Ie, steep them in 160 water for 25 minutes and you'll get all the flavor and sugar they have to offer. Malted barley is not the same. Malted barley is different. All grain brewers take some malted barley which is crushed allowing the endosperm starch inside the kernel to be accessed. There are a few enzymes that devour this crushed barley at temperatures within about a ten degree range. One temp does a real good job at chopping the starches into little bite size pieces of food for yeast. Another temp induced enzyme is motivated to just chop the yeast into big chunks. Like if you cut a tree down you break it up enough to put into a trailor and take away to the dump.. that would be the enzyme that works around 160 degrees. If you want to make firewood out of that wood, it has to be chopped up small so it burns well and that is the 150 degree range.

It might be confusing now but steeping and mashing are completely different. A good extract recipe usually, but not alway uses steeped grains and will make great beer but it is not the same as taking crushed barley, converting the starch into fermentable sugar and making beer.

PLEASE DON'T get me wrong. You can make great beer with liquid malt extract.. All Grain doesn't rule.

For me I like all grain because for one it is cheaper, two it is fresher beer and three It's just a hell of a lot of fun!


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Old 12-18-2011, 02:48 AM   #5
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When mashing, your pH is generally in the low 5's, lower pH's don't lend themselves to tannin extraction. Steeping usually doesn't involve pH control and temp can vary quite a bit, by limiting the exposure to 30 min you won't get much tannin as long as you keep temps below 170.

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Old 12-20-2011, 04:55 AM   #6
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alrite im confused again

im making a porter with an extract recipe that calls for 0.25 lbs of black patent to be steeped.
i looked at the all grain version and it also calls for 0.25 lbs of black patent to be mashed. is this grain different from the extract one?

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Old 12-20-2011, 12:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowthunda View Post
alrite im confused again

im making a porter with an extract recipe that calls for 0.25 lbs of black patent to be steeped.
i looked at the all grain version and it also calls for 0.25 lbs of black patent to be mashed. is this grain different from the extract one?
No.

When I brew an AG recipe, it's exactly the same as the extract recipe. Except that instead of base malt (two-row) in the extract version, it uses extract for the majority of the fermentables. There is no difference in any of the grains. They are the same, whether you are mashing or steeping.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:08 PM   #8
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I think temperature and ph are more of a factor in tannin extraction.

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Old 12-20-2011, 03:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
No.

When I brew an AG recipe, it's exactly the same as the extract recipe. Except that instead of base malt (two-row) in the extract version, it uses extract for the majority of the fermentables. There is no difference in any of the grains. They are the same, whether you are mashing or steeping.
I think he's referring to the grains that don't impart fermentables, like the specialty grains in a recipe. Assuming they're the same for all grain and extract.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowthunda View Post
alrite im confused again

im making a porter with an extract recipe that calls for 0.25 lbs of black patent to be steeped.
i looked at the all grain version and it also calls for 0.25 lbs of black patent to be mashed. is this grain different from the extract one?
It is the same grain. When you steep it (lots of water at around 160 F), you extract the color, flavor, and some sugars.

It does contain some starches that can be converted to sugars if mashed with a base grain, but has no enzymes of it's own so cannot convert itself. When you mash it with a base grain, you extract color, flavor, and more sugars than if just steeping. Mashing requires a much smaller amount of water dependent on the amount of grain in the mash.
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