Starters

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NicKageB

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Starters, for starters, I don't get it. ;)

I've read Palmer's book, listened to brew strong quite a bit, and read a few articles on the intraweb about how important starters are and how to get the best starter. I don't understand why you need a starter let alone how to make one. I just finished my second extract brew and was wondering if i should do a starter next time or if this is more of an AG thing. I'm not asking anyone to try to explain this to me necessarily, just recommend some resources? Thanks!
 
Two good youtube videos that show clearly how to make a starter can be found on Northern Brewer's website as well as "Beer Geek Nation" on youtube. I have yet to make a starter in 12 batches, but I usually brew with dried yeast, not liquid. My beers have been good, but I also brew modest gravity beers. That being said, pretty much every starter-related post suggests making a starter, even on lower gravity beers, and I plan on making a habit out of it next time I use liquid.
 
Starters build up the yeast you have, giving you more active cells. Pitching more active yeast cells into your wort will lead to faster, more effective fermentations with fewer off-flavors.

As mentioned above, its not an issue with dry yeast, because they already have enough yeast cells for an average sized beer. If you are brewing a big beer, though, you might pitch two packets of dry yeast.

Liquid yeast has fewer cells and thus you need to make a starter for even average sized beers. Or you can pitch multiple vials or packs.

You will make beer without making a starter. You will make better beer with starters, if you use liuid yeast.

Making a starter is simple - boil some extract in a half gallon of water, cool, pitch yeast and let it ferment the starter wort. The yeast will multiply then drop to the bottom. Decant the liquid and pitch the yeast cake into the wort of your beer.

If anything's unclear, ask away!
 
Trying to simplify... The higher your OG goes, more and more yeast cells are needed for proper fermentation. There is a good tool on MrMalty.com that can guide you on how much you need. A yeast starter basically lets you grow more more yeast when needed. If you can make a big enough starter, you even save cash by buying less liquid yeast and growing it to meet what you need for your beer.

Liquid yeast has a shelf live, even when kept cold. The estimated number of cells in a vial or smack pack is valid for when the yeast is packaged and yeast start dying as the package ages. This is the "viability" and the viability decreases with age. A yeast starter will increase the the cell count, making up for a decrease in viability.

Another thing that yeast starters do is get your yeast ready for their big day when you pitch. When kept cold, they have basically been sleeping and when you pitch them it's like a rude wake up call. "TIME TO GO TO WORK YEASTIES!!!" Making a yeast starter is sorta like a warmup and stretch before they start an intense workout.

This is a pretty good video on how to make a starter. It shows an Erlenmeyer flask being used but a jug works great too.

http://billybrew.com/how-to-make-a-yeast-starter
 
This is the pitch rate calculator I like to use. Plug some numbers in for one of the beers you made. Make up a production date for a liquid yeast you used. (Wyeast marks each of their packs with the production date. White Labs has an expiration date marked. The White Labs production date is six months before the expiration date.) Check the viability %. Put in another production date and check the viability % to see how it changes.
Look at the pitch rate recommended. Change the OG of the beer and check the recommended pitch rate again to see how it changes.
In screen two start with a one liter starter for the yeast amount/viability in screen one. Check the growth rate shown and resulting number of cells grown. Change the starter size to two liters. Check how the growth rate changes and the number of cells grown.
Just by playing with the numbers entered in the calculator you will get the idea of how much a starter can do.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/
 
Someone on this forum suggested making a larger starter than necessary so as to create extra yeast for storage so that "washing" the yeast (rinsing it to separate the yeast from the garbage that falls out in the trub) wasn't necessary. It's cleaner and easier, and I suspect it gives less chance for infections and mutations. But I have nothing to show that would prove that.
 
Someone on this forum suggested making a larger starter than necessary so as to create extra yeast for storage so that "washing" the yeast (rinsing it to separate the yeast from the garbage that falls out in the trub) wasn't necessary. It's cleaner and easier, and I suspect it gives less chance for infections and mutations. But I have nothing to show that would prove that.

This does work. You will always have on hand yeast that was never stressed by fermenting a wort of over 1.036.
 
It made a ton of sense to me when he had described it and why. And boiling water, cooling it, and then running this through 3 one galling jugs with a funnel just created a bunch of things for me to clean. So an enlarged starter sounded much better to me!

And I buy 2 lb bags of DME for $8.75. I use 1/4 lb for a typical starter in 1 qt of water, and I'll use an additional 1/8 lb and pint for the extra. That equates to an additional $0.55 cost in DME.
 
The part about starters that doesn't make much sense to me is why growing the yeast in a separate small container is better than growing them in the wort? Is it because you are rinsing and/or just using the yeast patty and all the off flavors are in the liquid? I assume that the off flavors arise during the reproduction phase, but don't the yeast go through a reproduction phase again when you pitch them into your wort? If they don't then how do the yeast know that there are enough of them to start fermenting?
 
The part about starters that doesn't make much sense to me is why growing the yeast in a separate small container is better than growing them in the wort? Is it because you are rinsing and/or just using the yeast patty and all the off flavors are in the liquid? I assume that the off flavors arise during the reproduction phase, but don't the yeast go through a reproduction phase again when you pitch them into your wort? If they don't then how do the yeast know that there are enough of them to start fermenting?

The starter wort's OG is usually modest, 1.040 or less, so the yeast are less stressed than if you pitched them directly into your 1.065 OG IPA. More detailed than that, I'd suggest reading Yeast, by Jamil Zanisheff and Chris White. Very good book, although I skipped some of the technical portions ;)

I think its great that you want to know the 'why' behind starters. Hopefully someone can explain it in more depth than I can. You might also take a look through our 'Brewing Science" subforum and see if some microbiologists can be more insightful.

But whether or not pitching the correct amount of yeast for a given wort leads to better beer or not is not open to debate, its been long settled. Doesn't mean you can't underpitch and make perfectly fine beer. Pitching the appropriate amount of yeast will just lead to better beer.

Practically speaking, I often don't get around to making a starter, so I either use dry yeast or multiple vials of the liquid yeast. But you end up in the same place - pitching enough yeast.
 
The starter wort's OG is usually modest, 1.040 or less, so the yeast are less stressed than if you pitched them directly into your 1.065 OG IPA. More detailed than that, I'd suggest reading Yeast, by Jamil Zanisheff and Chris White. Very good book, although I skipped some of the technical portions ;)

I think its great that you want to know the 'why' behind starters. But whether or not pitching the correct amount of yeast for a given wort leads to better beer or not is not open to debate, its been long settled. Doesn't mean you can't underpitch and make perfectly fine beer. Pitching the appropriate amount of yeast will just lead to better beer.

Practically speaking, I often don't get around to making a starter, so I either use dry yeast or multiple vials of the liquid yeast. But you end up in the same place - pitching enough yeast.

I'm a logical person and so the why for me is more about something that doesn't make sense logically. I know that it works. I've been reading as much as I can about why this works and just haven't quite figured out exactly why it works. I like to understand the whys. Thanks for pointing out the Chris White book.
 
I'm a logical person and so the why for me is more about something that doesn't make sense logically. I know that it works. I've been reading as much as I can about why this works and just haven't quite figured out exactly why it works. I like to understand the whys. Thanks for pointing out the Chris White book.

You might also pop into the brewing science subforum here, some microbiologist might be able to answer your question more fully!
 
Wasn't able to check the forum for a few days and look at all the responses I got, thanks guys!

The beer I'm currently drinking is a 2 hearted ale clone which doesn't taste quite right... Not terrible just not 2 <3'd.
I used 1 vial of yeast in this without making a starter. After using Mr Malty's calculator I see I should've used 2.3 vials! No wonder it tastes funny, less than half what it should be!

When it refers to # of liters of starter does that refer to how much wort you prepare before putting the yeast in?
I saw someone say 1/4lb dme/liter is that a pretty good rule?

Thanks again!
 
Wasn't able to check the forum for a few days and look at all the responses I got, thanks guys!

The beer I'm currently drinking is a 2 hearted ale clone which doesn't taste quite right... Not terrible just not 2 <3'd.
I used 1 vial of yeast in this without making a starter. After using Mr Malty's calculator I see I should've used 2.3 vials! No wonder it tastes funny, less than half what it should be!

When it refers to # of liters of starter does that refer to how much wort you prepare before putting the yeast in?
I saw someone say 1/4lb dme/liter is that a pretty good rule?

Thanks again!

With a rule like that you also need to say a prayer as you add the yeast to the fermentor.
The size of a starter depends upon the OG of the beer, the volume being brewed, and the viability of the yeast.

Yes, the volume is the volume of the starter wort that you add the yeast to.

These are two good calculators to use. There is a difference in the calculation of viable cells per ml as there is with Mrmalty.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/
http://www.yeastcalc.co/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator
 
For what it's worth, Beer Geek Nation says 2 cups of water and a 1/2 cup of DME for their ratio for starter building. NB says 650 ml of water and 1/2 cup of DME, which is pretty close since 1 cup = 236 ml. The NB is for a 1 liter starter. I don't know the size of the BGN starter.
 
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