Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Starter or no starter
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2009, 02:29 AM   #11
Swampsn
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 23
Default

Are starters needed for like Edwort's Apfelwein recipe with the Montrachet wine yeast?

__________________
Swampsn is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2009, 02:30 AM   #12
flyangler18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hanover, PA
Posts: 5,679
Liked 27 Times on 27 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampsn View Post
Are starters needed for like Edwort's Apfelwein recipe with the Montrachet wine yeast?
No, because you are using dry yeast.
__________________
flyangler18 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2009, 05:21 PM   #13
Desert_Sky
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Desert_Sky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 4,090
Liked 35 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewBrew75 View Post
That's great, but why exactly do you believe that?
__________________
Desert Sky Brewing Co.
Sierra Vista, AZ
Desert_Sky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2009, 07:31 PM   #14
NewBrew75
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 137
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Chimone,

I have a boat that requires that I should always use 89 octane. I could just believe the manual, but I find that I know more about my boat and how to take care of the engine if I know why exactly the reason for using 89. It burns hotter, ignites under higher pressure, thus preventing pre-ignition that could damage the engine. Somehow, I like knowing that, and it helps me understand the science behind taking care of my boat. Just the same, I bet the more I know about the science of brewing, the better brew I can produce.

Was your most recent reply because you don't know exactly why making a starter should always be used, or are you just too lazy to reply in detail your opinions?

__________________
NewBrew75 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2009, 07:38 PM   #15
Desert_Sky
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Desert_Sky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 4,090
Liked 35 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewBrew75 View Post

Was your most recent reply because you don't know exactly why making a starter should always be used, or are you just too lazy to reply in detail your opinions?

becasue Im too lazy to explain for the 1083421018320978th time why making a starter is better. Feel free to do the research on your own though. By all means new brew, do a search at least before getting defensive
__________________
Desert Sky Brewing Co.
Sierra Vista, AZ
Desert_Sky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2009, 07:39 PM   #16
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,108
Liked 4481 Times on 3260 Posts
Likes Given: 870

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewBrew75 View Post
Chimone,

Was your most recent reply because you don't know exactly why making a starter should always be used, or are you just too lazy to reply in detail your opinions?
It's because at least twice the pitching calculator at mrmalty was linked to/mentioned. It's because every one who responded said that there simply aren't enough yeast cells to do the job in a smack pack or vial, even though the vial might say "pitchable" on it. It's because people took time in some detail to explain it. Someone also gave you a link to an awesome podcast that would explain it in even greater detail.

And then, you asked "are you just too lazy to reply in detail?" How much more detail do you think you'll need?
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2009, 07:42 PM   #17
Coastarine
We get it, you hate BMC.
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Coastarine's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Bern, NC
Posts: 2,582
Liked 21 Times on 19 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

You want the answer laid out in detail on a pretty platter just for you...do you think we're breaking new ground here in this thread? Just take a guess.

Who is lazy?

__________________
SEMPER FIDELIS ET SEMPER PARATUS Bringin' the 'pane...the propane.Coming Up:..[Hefewiezen][BCS Robust Porter][EdWort's Haus Pale Ale][Peated Ale]
Fermenting:.
Conditioning:[Oaked Cider][ESB]
On Tap.........[The Munchner][Spiced Cider][English Cider][Simcoe IPA][Triple Hops Grooved][Cider'n 'gnac]
Coastarine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2009, 10:52 PM   #18
NewBrew75
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 137
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Yooperbrew, Coastarine,

I appreciate your criticism, well not actually because my last reply I was not talking to you. To all the people that answered my question with helpful advice, I thank you much. It's helped me greatly. I already know that many people advise making a starter. I was curious why. Chimone's first reply didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. So I asked him why he said I should make a starter every time. He responded with more or less an insult. This thread is here to help right? Why does he even bother responding if he's not helping. I have already began reading several books, but it doesn't replace the HELPFUL advice from people that know it and have experienced it first hand. If you feel you've explained it too many times, then don't reply. I'll take my advice from people that are willing to help. And the more the merrier. All of you were beginner brewers at one point in time.

All this got out of hand pretty quickly. Chimone, to be very honest, you seem very knowledgable and experienced. I'd sure like to know your take on my original question. But if it's too much hassle, it's cool. I won't worry about it.

Look, I don't mean to pick fights here. It just seemed like I was almost getting mocked for asking a "stupid" question. I kinda itched me the wrong way. I apologize for getting snappy. I'm trying to learn this stuff as fast as I can, but there's a lot to learn, and I appreciate anyone's sincere help along the way.

__________________

Last edited by NewBrew75; 01-04-2009 at 11:11 PM.
NewBrew75 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2009, 01:01 AM   #19
Desert_Sky
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Desert_Sky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 4,090
Liked 35 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

The info was already given to you. Thats why I posted the face palm. I apologize for offending you

Quote:
Most homebrewers start out pitching a Wyeast packet. How much are you actually underpitching with one of these 50 ml pouches? Assuming all the yeast in a Wyeast packet are viable (only about 25% truly are!), we are adding only 50 ml of about 60 million/cells per ml. This translates into a pitching rate of 150,000 cells per ml . Thus with a single Wyeast packet you are underpitching by a factor of at least 35 for ales and almost 100-fold for lagers. What is the big deal about underpitching. Well remember that very little yeast growth should go on in the fermenter. There should be no more than 3 or 4 cell division which should take place during the first few hours of fermentation. If underpitched the yeast will spend much more time trying to grow to adequate quantities. During this extended growth period the yeast tend to secrete more esters and fusel alcohols. Moreover they may not have a sufficient number to adequately metabolize (digest) all of the fermentable sugars. So what you end up with is a beer with off-flavors (such as esters, fusel alcohols, diacetyl, acetaldehyde) and a high finishing gravity. Thus it is important to always make a starter and make it a relatively big one. Remember that you want the yeast to spend most of their energy making alcohol not babies in a fermenter!!
__________________
Desert Sky Brewing Co.
Sierra Vista, AZ
Desert_Sky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2009, 01:09 AM   #20
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,108
Liked 4481 Times on 3260 Posts
Likes Given: 870

Default

You may not have intended to direct comments at me or Coastarine, but in a forum, we're all talking to each other so it's hard to tell.

Hopefully you found the information you were looking for.

__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brett starter or no starter squeekysheep General Techniques 4 07-31-2009 02:54 AM
starter slomo Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 04-27-2009 07:09 PM
Starter Question / Will 1/2 gal of starter do two batches? JKHomebrew General Beer Discussion 4 01-28-2009 12:39 PM
How big of a starter? Eskimo Spy Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 08-14-2008 07:08 PM
Starter? We don't need no stinkin' starter! Hopsnort General Techniques 11 02-13-2006 07:14 AM