Specialty Grains - What to do when it hits a boil?

**banesong** · 02-14-2011, 02:32 PM

Okay, so after attending a homebrew club meeting of Saturday, I headed home all revved up to brew my Honey Amber II - The return! (gotta love a beer that has a name before the brewpot hits the stove)

Well, juggling the 1yo, dinner pots and steeping water, it took a while to realize that while the thermometer read 149, the water was boiling! After pulling the grains, I did some soul searching and decided that all I had wasted at that point was about $2.50 worth of Crystal Malt, and that going ahead with a potential funky flavor was not worth it. So, a gallon of water down the sink and all the beer making supplies back in the basement until I can hit the brew store.

Did I do the right thing, dumping the proto-wort? Could I have gone ahead and used the steeping liquid anyway? I did RDWHAHB after I dumped the water, but wanted the feedback of brewers more experienced than I.

As a side question - what is the proper ratio of water to specialty grain? I have seen many different theories (and expect to get many posting to this thread too). My last brew I just steeped the grains in the full 5 gallons; the fermentor is just about ready to pull, so I will see the results in about another month or so. This batch, I was steeping 1lb in 1g of water. I was planning on incorporating the steeping liquid in another 4g of warm water and then rinsing the grains with cool water to bring the boil up to about 5.5g (which ends up at about 4.5g give or take at the end - this is just what I can boil). Am I going the right direction?

Thank
T

**Revvy** · 02-14-2011, 02:45 PM

Well I wouldn't have dumped the "proto-wort" out because I boiled my grains...Sorry but that whole "Don't boil your grains" thing is a wee but not understood and over-rated in terms of fear.

I posted a detailed discussion of the "chestnut" here; http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/less-than-satisfied-my-first-brew-224679/#post2639410

(There are actually a number of instances where what's been told about that is actually done in all grain brewing....)

In fact I'm boiling my grains right here (It's called decocting)

May I make a suggestion...in the future, don't be so quick to dump something out, just because you THINK you've made a mistake...or because you've heard something is done differently than yours. Often a lot of those "common wisdoms" that we hear or pass around rote are half baked (I'm being polite.)

They are often repeated ad nauseum by, especially new brewers, with little know understanding of the context behind them...or even a basic thinking like, "how come it says not to boil your grains, yet people doing decotion mashing do it all the time?" or "They say not to squeeze their grain bag, but in Brew in a Bag- they are encouraged to squeeze them...so what's going on here?."

I really believe in seeing a beer through the process, even if I think I made a mistake.....Because usually even when we make a mistake, we still end up making beer. It may not be exactly the same recipe, [b]but it might actually be better.[/i] In the world most discoveries were accidents to begin with.

And it's really hard to ruin beer, even though we may thins differently when we start out. So next time you boil your grains, or make another mistake, just go on and finish the beer. Then you can look back and laugh at your worries.

ongreystreet · 02-14-2011, 02:57 PM

As a newer brewer, I would have dumped the grains and brewed another day. The general consensus is not to boil your steeping grains, or you release the tannins(nasty flavors) and it could ruin your brew. If you have more experience maybe you can get away with this, but a less experienced brewer wants to limit their changes to typical technique. A less experienced brewer might also have less equipment, which means if they screw it up, they might be occupying their only fermenter for a month or so with undrinkable beer. I don't think it'd be worth the stress of waiting on beer you thought you messed up for just dumping $2 worth of grain. If you hadn't noticed til after adding extract, that would be a lot different situation.

**Revvy** · 02-14-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ongreystreet

As a newer brewer, I would have dumped the grains and brewed another day. The general consensus is not to boil your steeping grains, or you release the tannins(nasty flavors) and it could ruin your brew.

But do you really understand the reason why? Or are you just repeating what you hear? Or do you really understand that that is a myth? I posted in my post the detailed explanation about how that is "mythunderstood." 99% of the time, tannins will NOT be released by boiling the grains.

You know, for a long time the "general consensus" was that the earth was flat.

Heck John Palmer believed the collected wisdom that autolysis happened instantly and beers need to move off the yeast cake ASAP, until we proved him wrong by leaving our beers in primary for months and having them turn out great, now he's back pedaled on that idea, and the "collective wisdom" has changed.

that's why I'm getting at the idea of learning more, and questioning more than just listenning to the general consensus. And not dumping a beer, just because you think you did something wrong..because more than LIKELY, the beer is going to turn out DESPITE what you do.

That's why I've collected these stories, so you new brewers aren't so quick to declare your beer "bad" and to dump it out.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/what-some-mistakes-you-made-where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

As well as these stories here;

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/never-dump-your-beer-patience-virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

Quote:

Originally Posted by ongreystreet

A less experienced brewer might also have less equipment, which means if they screw it up, they might be occupying their only fermenter for a month or so with undrinkable beer. I don't think it'd be worth the stress of waiting on beer you thought you messed up for just dumping $2 worth of grain. If you hadn't noticed til after adding extract, that would be a lot different situation.

Well 1) buckets are cheap, you can always get another fermenter....and 2 more than likely in a month, you would end up with very tasty beer, and be sharing your story in one of the afore mentioned threads about not dumping your beer.

I think this should be hung and posted in Every new brewers brew closet.

Quote:

Since nothing pathogenic can grow in beer, that's a really silly worry and would be a waste of potentially excellent beer.

That's why I've been collecting success stories like this, to hopefully teach you overly worried new brewers the folly of your ways.

Most of the time a new brewer (and it's usually new brewers who do) is because they think something like that, though, and are actually tasting their beer usually when it is really green. Or they make a mistake and because of all the worst case scenarions they've come upon in books, they dump it thinking in their naievty that their beer will instantly go bad.

I wrote this awhile ago...it should be committed to memory...

Quote:

You don't dump your beer, for making a minor little mistake. Your beer is hardier than that.

And you don't dump something because you think it's going to turn out bad. You only dump a beer that you KNOW is bad, and you give it at least a couple of months in the bottle before you even make THAT decision.

Read theses two threads that were compiled for nervous new brewers to realize that your beers are not a weak baby that is going to die if you look at it wrong.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/what-some-mistakes-you-made-where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

Read this one especially

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/never-dump-your-beer-patience-virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

Our beer is really resilient despite the boneheaded things we do to it. And even if something appears to be wrong, often time and the yeasties go along way to correct itself.

And if everyone dumped their beer just because of a common thing like an airlock suckback, no one would be brewing. We ALL have had sanitizer from our airlock get into our beer at one time or another. There's a ton of panic threads on here about that, and the answer is always the same, RELAX.

I think about it in terms of my time and money, I'm not going to dump 30 or more dollars worth of ingredients, 6 hours of brewing time, and at least 2 months from yeast pitch to cracking the first bottle, on what could be a minor mistake (that may not even harm the beer anyway,) until I have exhausted all probability that the beer won't improve. And even then that means at least walking away from the bottles for maybe 6 months or more.

And so far I have never beer wrong.

After all these years of brewing I still haven't had a dumper.

And I've made some big mistakes.

But I have never had a beer that wasn't at least palatable, after all that time.

They may have not been stellar beers, but they were still better than BMC or Skunky Beers in green bottles that people actually pay money for.

So just read those threads and next time, relax, and give your beer a chance to prove how strong it really is.

ongreystreet · 02-14-2011, 03:10 PM

I agree that it might not harm the brew, if it happened to me, and I had a little more confidence in the entire process and a few more fermenters, I'd say let's give it a go. But if the OP is new to the game, and doesn't have the extra gear, why risk it for $2 worth of grain?

Another mistake was bound to made if one was already made this early in the process, I wouldn't juggle dinner, a 1 year old, and brew all at once, I know I would screw up a few things(including dinner). When I did screw up, I'd probably blame it on boiling the steeping grains, and conclude that revvy is full of it! (which I don't believe)

**Revvy** · 02-14-2011, 03:18 PM

I believe the best way to understand RDWHAHB is to experience RDWHAHB, and the only way to do that is, when me make a mistake, is not to dump, to see the beer through to it's conclusion and see that the beer turns out fine.

Rather than go "OHMYGODIMADEAMISTAKEMYBEERISRUINEDIMIGHTASWELLDUM PIT." Is to adopt the attitude, "Gee, I wonder what will happen now...."

You can't "know" that until you taste the beer and its' fine.

Which about 99.95% of the time it is....

**banesong** · 02-14-2011, 03:20 PM

Revvy and ongreystreet:

Thanks for the quick feedback. I have to say that I decided to dump it primarily due to the fact that the last batch didn't go well, and it was $2 max investment at that point. I think if I had one in the fermenter that I was a great one, I would have gone through with this (the brew ingredients were around $20). However, this was a SWMBO special and I also had to sit back and make sure she was happy too.

Ehh... next time, I will try and let it roll, and I will do more research into decocting.

For an extract brewer, any feelings on water to grains ratio?

ongreystreet:

I notice that you are local - are you a member of BURP?

T

ongreystreet · 02-14-2011, 03:33 PM

Revvy can probably give you a better answer about the steeping volume. I know when it comes to steeping water, more water isn't always better. I steeped my first batch at 2.5 gallons, since I was following the kit, and my last batch I knocked it down to 2 gallons, then added another gallon after that for my boil.

I am not a member of any groups at the moment. I stay pretty busy with a few other interests, including cigars and pipes, brewing, La Barra Brava, and my one year old daughter.

Probably_Confused · 02-14-2011, 03:59 PM

I agree with some of the above statements that it's best to keep your batches even if you know you made a mistake.

Unless I know that I made a mistake that will make the brew completely undrinkable, I keep going and just take notes on what happened. If you boiled your grains when you didn't intend to, just write down as best you can what happened, and keep going. Once you get a bunch of batches under your belt, you will start to figure out how various techniques/mistakes affect the final product. It's the best way to get better

william_shakes_beer · 02-14-2011, 04:11 PM

Maybe next time instead of dumping you carefully record what you did, and next batch do exactly the same recipie except don't boil grains. Taste both. You might like the boiled grains better. At least you would be in a position to add to the collective knowledge here. Its the basic scientific principal: experiment, isolate one variable and adjust to see what the overall effect is.