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MyCarHasAbs

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I'll briefly explain what the topic is here. I'm still tasting some slight off flavors after my first year of brewing.

With that said, I've been brewing just over a year, I've made 8 batches so far.
First: typical - over carbonated, way too sweet. (bourbon stout)
Second: bottling and carbonation issues but better overall. (dunkel)
Third: too experimental (rosemary IPA, very dry taste and too aromatic)
Fourth: drinkable but a slight twang taste (wheat)
Fifth: first all grain and FINALLY getting somewhere (pumkin ale)
Sixth: Easily my best but maybe a little too experimental in flavors. It was most def drinkable and enjoyable. (Mint Chocolate Stout)
Seventh: a repeat of the 5th but it turned out awful. twangy off flavors and major carbonation problems. I didn't throw it out because I wanted to be reminded with every regrettable sip how much I needed to improve. (pumpkin)

Eighth: A Chai Tea spiced Amber Ale. Not as enjoyable as the Mint Chocolate Stout but it's def telling me I'm really close to getting my beers consistent.

Which brings me to the primary topic of this thread. I know I've improved a lot over the year of learning and brewing. I've quadrupled the amount of equipment I started with a year ago and I'm brewing on average now close to once a month. I'm doing all grain with a home made mash tun. ***The one thing I'm noticing about my lighter ales is a consistent twangy taste. I'll break down where I think it may be coming from:

1) water - tap
2) equipment - sanitized 100% sure.
3) strike water to sit for an hour in the mash tun - pouring precisely at 170f though it may be dropping a little too much in temp post grain drop..not positive.
4) THIS IS WHERE I SUSPECT I MAY STILL BE MISSING SOMETHING - the 1 hour boil. I don't start the clock until the temp hits 212f. But I don't drop the stove dial to medium hit unless I get nervous with the boil. But other than that it stays on high the whole time.
5) car boy and fermentation - using smack packs and temp controllers, I'm 99% positive I'm doing this part right.
6) aging in carboy - I usually do 3-4 weeks. (I'm ready for heat..whatever) I don't do gravity readings. I have my reasons, we'll leave it at that. I know it's frowned upon.
7) bottling - I got this down pat for the most part except getting each bottle to carbonate evenly seems to be something I haven't quite mastered even though I do slowly stir after the bottling bucket has been filled with uncarbonated wort. And yes I do let it slowly siphon in after taking what the instructions say is the correct amount of priming sugar solution.
8) My basement is cold so 2 weeks for carbonation isn't quite always enough. I test a bottle or two at two weeks and then usually place the rest in the fridge at the 3 week marker.


Anyone have any suspicions? If you have a comment on the gravity readings, save your breath, I already know, I'll eventually start doing it. Cool your tits. Anything else please fire away. Primary description of taste is I'm missing the malty flavor and it's a bit twangy.
 
I should probably also mention that I do cold crash for about 4 days to a week before bottling and my beer still comes out a bit cloudy.

The guy who taught me one time mentioned that temperature during the boil can effect the clarity of the beer. I'm also afraid this may have something to do with the slight twangy taste I'm noticing in both this one and the pumpkin ales (especially that last one).
 
The one thing I dont see you mention is temp control. What are you doing for that? You mention that the basement is cold. How cold is it?
 
Big Jack makes a great point, You are brewing crazy beers.

When you are learning it is best to just make simple brews to get the. process down. You are brewing beers with way too many exotic ingredients. Back off and brew a few tried and true recipes.
 
The one thing I dont see you mention is temp control. What are you doing for that? You mention that the basement is cold. How cold is it?




Good question though I briefly covered it.
I have temp controllers. Two digital controllers and two carboy heat wrappers. The Chai tea ale I mentioned last was set at 65. The Hefe that have now in cold crash state was set to 68.

Thermowell hoods, probes, and electrical tape to keep everything in tact.
 
The one thing I dont see you mention is temp control. What are you doing for that? You mention that the basement is cold. How cold is it?


Good question though I briefly covered it.
I have temp controllers. Two digital controllers and two carboy heat wrappers. The Chai tea ale I mentioned last was set at 65. The Hefe that have now in cold crash state was set to 68.

Thermowell hoods, probes, and electrical tape to keep everything in tact.
 
Do you know anything about your tap water? Problem with only your lighter ales suggests high mash pH issues. Your twangy description could be tannins from high mash or sparge.
 
I think you might want to brew a few simple all-grain beers (no fruit or exotic ingredients. Pale ales, cream ales, easy and simple styles.)

Doing so will make it easier to detect off flavors and their causes before you complicate the issue with complex styles.


I'll answer two questions at the same time.

I've got a basic Hanks Hefe in cold crash as I mentioned above that I added sweet lemon peel and orange peel to. I can't imagine those two ingredients being the cause of any twangy off flavors considering the basic wheat beer I made back last summer had a similar off twangy taste in the really bad Pumpkin ale batch.


As for recipes.. good question too. The pumpkin ales were kind of ad odd set up. Ironically, the first one that I made that was also my first AG batch I forgot to add real pumpkin to it as the directions from MidWest called for. It turned out damn good. My fiance even liked it. The one after that I did add organic pumpkin to...tasted like ****. The one time I'd rather have Miller Lite. Though I later realized it fermented too cold and never actually finished fermentation properly.

To go in deeper with that question, for any experimental additions as of late, I've been taking the soft approach. Using additions that come from Midwest instead of taking mint leaves and soaking them in an undocumeted amount of vodka for two weeks before dumping in the carboy. So far I'm 2 for 4 in the experiment department.

I guess the conclusion I'm coming to is..I'm not completely convinced the experimental flavors are causing any issues with off flavors. But deeper explanation my steer me to think otherwise.
 
Do you know anything about your tap water? Problem with only your lighter ales suggests high mash pH issues. Your twangy description could be tannins from high mash or sparge.

I don't know squat about my tap water. But you def have my attention on that one. Could you elaborate? I'm a newbie in that area to say the least. With the tannins comment, are you suggesting high pH or high temps to be the culprit??
 
Big Jack makes a great point, You are brewing crazy beers.

When you are learning it is best to just make simple brews to get the. process down. You are brewing beers with way too many exotic ingredients. Back off and brew a few tried and true recipes.

100% agreed with everyone stating you are running before you walk. Start simple and get your process down.

Some items you noted:
On water, use spring water from the store if you are not sure about your tap water. For simple and moderate beers, this simple change will help big time.
Once you are ready, you can dive into RO/Distilled water and build your water profile with water additions for the beer you want to make.

On your boil, I dont start the clock on my hop additions until the boil roll begins. You are fine here as long as the boil is boiling.

On your mash temps, are you batch or fly sparging? Either way, you should be mashing/doughing in at 150-155 for that hour of time. You mentioned you are pouring in the strike water at 170 which is fine to account for heat loss, whats your mash temp sitting at temp wise for that hour? This may also be a source of the off flavors. Again 150-155deg is your target temp for your mash temp regardless of the strike water temp. You should be pulling a mash temp once you dough in, and let it sit for 5mins with the lid closed on your MT to get a true mash temp reading.

Yeast - Are you making starters or just tossing the smack pack contents into the wort? You may be underpitching. Try to make some starters to ramp up yeast count when using liquid yeast. Underpitching can cause issues.

Chilling - Are you using a chiller to get your wort down to pitching temps and are you pitching your yeast at the right temps? You did not mention this.

Gravity readings - If you are leaving the beer in primary for 3-4 weeks, I would not concern myself with this unless you are brewing lagers..Lagers will ferment longer than ales and bottling up too quickly creates bottle bombs.


Bottom line - Try store bought spring water if you are using tap, pitch the proper amount of yeast, and make sure your mash temp is right. Last but not least, simplify your brews and get a brewday process nailed down so you have a repeatable routine.
One last note..if you are drinking while brewing, stop. This has caused me issues in the past. Relax and have a homebrew once the yeast is pitched and the carboy/bucket is in its 3-4 week resting spot.

:tank:
 
I guess the conclusion I'm coming to is..I'm not completely convinced the experimental flavors are causing any issues with off flavors. But deeper explanation my steer me to think otherwise.

I agree. I don't think they cause the off flavors.

I do, however, think they are keeping you from discovering the cause.

More over, you are trying to do wind sprints before you crawl. You don't have mastery of malt, hops, yeast, and water yet. Balance the four elements before adding accents.

In other words, patients, grasshopper.
 
I started out using spring water, then just got an RV charcoal filter (in-line hose) and used a Campden tab. Your water profile is probable online from your water company or you can send yours out to a lab for analysis.
 
I think you need to either brew some kits and make sure they come out good a few times in a row in order to narrow down the off flavors, if any. Doesn't have to be the same one, just needs to be a known recipe.

If you are coming up with your own recipes, I would get a program like BeerSmith so you can get an idea on how your recipes will turn out.

Higher mash temps with make your beers sweet. You said you got your sparge water to 170 but never mentioned the temperature of the mash.
 
My last pale ale had my strike water at 166F with 10lbs of grain to get a mash temp of 151F. Even a few degrees higher would be too sweet.
 
"The one thing I'm noticing about my lighter ales is a consistent twangy taste."

I know that people are eager to help and are suggesting all kinds of things in this thread, but the statement above is exactly what happens when brewing lighter beers with water that's too alkaline, usually due to high bicarbonate content. Light grists do not have the necessary acid to lower the mash pH into the "safe" range for brewing when confronted with high alkalinity in the source water. Try making a light beer with 100% spring water and see if you have your issues - I'll bet you don't.

Charcoal filters do not affect brewing minerals (Ca, Mg, Na, Cl, SO4). And the Campden tabs only take care of chlorine that your municipality might put into the water. Have your tap water tested!

I had a twang issue for my first 10 brews. Got my tap (well) water tested and I won't go into the details, but it was an eye-opener. I now use distilled plus brewing salts, or sometimes I will dilute with a little well water for dark beers due to the needed alkalinity.
 
Lots of changes in one year. Pick one recipe and make it 3x in a row. Take good notes with each batch and compare the results. You need to dial in your system and process. Happy brewing.

This ^ and water are the two things that stuck out to me...

First water. If you dont know your source water, you are shooting blind on pH and certain mineral concentrations can effect how hops and other flavors come off (maltiness not coming through or not getting a dry finish on pale beers) .
Check into RO water and read up on the Primer in the Water Chemistry tab and I bet you will notice a difference.

Second, brew a recipe a few times. This helps you become consistent on that style in particular, but also helps you refine the process and dial in mistakes. For example, if you find that your IPA is too sweet, you can adjust the recipe, mash temp, pitch rate, etc. You can tweak these variables and process the outcome to better your beer.
 
100% agreed with everyone stating you are running before you walk. Start simple and get your process down.

Some items you noted:
On water, use spring water from the store if you are not sure about your tap water. For simple and moderate beers, this simple change will help big time.
Once you are ready, you can dive into RO/Distilled water and build your water profile with water additions for the beer you want to make.

1) On your boil, I dont start the clock on my hop additions until the boil roll begins. You are fine here as long as the boil is boiling.

2) On your mash temps, are you batch or fly sparging? Either way, you should be mashing/doughing in at 150-155 for that hour of time. You mentioned you are pouring in the strike water at 170 which is fine to account for heat loss, whats your mash temp sitting at temp wise for that hour? This may also be a source of the off flavors. Again 150-155deg is your target temp for your mash temp regardless of the strike water temp. You should be pulling a mash temp once you dough in, and let it sit for 5mins with the lid closed on your MT to get a true mash temp reading.

3) Yeast - Are you making starters or just tossing the smack pack contents into the wort? You may be underpitching. Try to make some starters to ramp up yeast count when using liquid yeast. Underpitching can cause issues.

4) Chilling - Are you using a chiller to get your wort down to pitching temps and are you pitching your yeast at the right temps? You did not mention this.

5) Gravity readings - If you are leaving the beer in primary for 3-4 weeks, I would not concern myself with this unless you are brewing lagers..Lagers will ferment longer than ales and bottling up too quickly creates bottle bombs.


6) Bottom line - Try store bought spring water if you are using tap, pitch the proper amount of yeast, and make sure your mash temp is right. Last but not least, simplify your brews and get a brewday process nailed down so you have a repeatable routine.
One last note..if you are drinking while brewing, stop. This has caused me issues in the past. Relax and have a homebrew once the yeast is pitched and the carboy/bucket is in its 3-4 week resting spot.

:tank:



I'm gonna go off of yours since it's the most to answer back and seems to cover some of the ones after this response as well. I also relabeled points to help out map out my answers.

1) mostly good here. I follow the rule of "212 is when biology kicks in and the water has to be boiling"

2) The water is 170 before I dump it in. I regret to admit I've never taken a sample reading before closing the lid and waiting an hour. I assume "dough in" means once the grain has been poured in and stirred adequately enough.

3) No starters but I am letting the smack pack sit out and "get fat" for 3+ hours at room temp (65-70f)

4) yep, forget to mention that. I have a wort chiller now. (Told y'all I quadrupled on my supplies ;D ) Went from chilling for a ****ing hour to 15-20 minutes tops. The kettle lid stays on it while the chilling for the most part.

5) as I figured, 3-4 weeks should eliminate the need for readings unless I'm A) in a hurry to bottle and get wasted or B) desperately want to know how much alcohol I'm making which I'm not.

6) I used to use store bought water and then we bought a house and I guess I've put too much faith in the tap water. The stout tasted great but I am willing to bet any off flavors were masked from the strength of the natural stout flavor.



To address a few comments below (or now above):

I was going to do a peach ale as my momento to Budweiser as a giant **** you and call it Judas Peach but I'll go with an AG fruity summer ale recipe from Midwest or Morebeer and just stick with it for a few months. My fiance wants something light and fruity-ish for the beach this summer and I was originally planning on doing a peach extract ale but now that I'm seeing this coming in I think I'll replan a bit until I can narrow down the culprit.

I'll start using store bought water again and see how it goes with a pre set recipe as well as taking temp readings post mash stir. BTW,...I'm confused..is it strike water that goes in first or is it sparge water that goes in first? I thought sparge water was what you use to after an hour of sitting to collect the remainder of the wort..

Off to bed for now. I'll check back sometime tomorrow.
THANKS FOR ALL THE RESPONSES SO FAR!!!! \m/ this site rocks.
 
I'm gonna go off of yours since it's the most to answer back and seems to cover some of the ones after this response as well. I also relabeled points to help out map out my answers.

1) mostly good here. I follow the rule of "212 is when biology kicks in and the water has to be boiling"

2) The water is 170 before I dump it in. I regret to admit I've never taken a sample reading before closing the lid and waiting an hour. I assume "dough in" means once the grain has been poured in and stirred adequately enough.

3) No starters but I am letting the smack pack sit out and "get fat" for 3+ hours at room temp (65-70f)

4) yep, forget to mention that. I have a wort chiller now. (Told y'all I quadrupled on my supplies ;D ) Went from chilling for a ****ing hour to 15-20 minutes tops. The kettle lid stays on it while the chilling for the most part.

5) as I figured, 3-4 weeks should eliminate the need for readings unless I'm A) in a hurry to bottle and get wasted or B) desperately want to know how much alcohol I'm making which I'm not.

6) I used to use store bought water and then we bought a house and I guess I've put too much faith in the tap water. The stout tasted great but I am willing to bet any off flavors were masked from the strength of the natural stout flavor.



To address a few comments below (or now above):

I was going to do a peach ale as my momento to Budweiser as a giant **** you and call it Judas Peach but I'll go with an AG fruity summer ale recipe from Midwest or Morebeer and just stick with it for a few months. My fiance wants something light and fruity-ish for the beach this summer and I was originally planning on doing a peach extract ale but now that I'm seeing this coming in I think I'll replan a bit until I can narrow down the culprit.

I'll start using store bought water again and see how it goes with a pre set recipe as well as taking temp readings post mash stir. BTW,...I'm confused..is it strike water that goes in first or is it sparge water that goes in first? I thought sparge water was what you use to after an hour of sitting to collect the remainder of the wort..

Off to bed for now. I'll check back sometime tomorrow.
THANKS FOR ALL THE RESPONSES SO FAR!!!! \m/ this site rocks.

Strike water is your first pour with the grains for doughing in(yes doughing in is the act of stirring up the grains and strike water to get the mash all set).

I think going back to store bought water until you get an idea of your tap water profile will certainly help.

Also on your smack pack, try to make a starter with that smack pack. You can use a sanitized growler to make one with some DME if you have some laying around. This will help your fermentation kick off much faster and up your pitch count closer to an appropriate pitch rate. Those smack packs more often times than not, honestly do not have enough viable yeast to hit a proper pitch count, plus a starter gets the yeast active and happy before hitting your wort which is never a bad thing.
:fro:

Good luck and keep us updated on how things go with these small adjustments.
 
BTW,...I'm confused..is it strike water that goes in first or is it sparge water that goes in first? I thought sparge water was what you use to after an hour of sitting to collect the remainder of the wort..

Strike water is your first volume of water. Its what you "dough in" with. If you batch sparge, you drain your first runnings from the MLT, and then fill the MLT back up with you sparge water, stir, and that "rinses" the remaining sugar, giving you your total pre boil volume.

If you fly sparge, you "rinse" the sugars from the grains with your sparge water from the top of the MLT, while you drain your MLT from the bottom at an equal rate of sparge water in/wort out.
 
"The stout tasted great but I am willing to bet any off flavors were masked from the strength of the natural stout flavor."

I know that water is a complicated topic so it scares people off. But a mash pH that's out of range can seriously harm a beer and render it barely drinkable. Stout is a dark beer of course, and the highly kilned/roasted grains are more acidic than light ones.

When such grains are mashed with alkaline water, the effects of the acid and alkalinity are offset, and mash pH often settles in the correct range (5.2-5.6). Contrast this with a mash containing only light grains, which are less acidic and do not cause the mash pH to drop. It stays higher than 5.6 and this causes a harsh bitterness or "twang" in the resulting beer.

So if your water has high alkalinity, your stouts are coming out okay but your lighter ales are not because of the resulting mash pH when combined with your tap water.
 
McKnuckle has completely covered my concern with high pH with lightly kilned malts. Try going to your LHBS or local home brew club and ask around about the water, somebody probably has some information. If you live in a city somewhere, somebody has probably posted the water information on this site already.

I think its also a good spot to mention that your tap water probably has chlorine or chloramine in it, which can create off flavors that are well documented on this and other sites. One campden tablet, which you can get at your home brew shop, will supposedly treat up to 20 gallons of water and get rid of all traces of chloramine.

Buying bottled water can be a pain, but it will ensure that water is not the issue. No chlorine/chloramine issues and shouldn't be any pH issues. Is bottled water the best mineral wise for all styles? No, but a solid recipe will taste great with bottled water. Maybe not 100% to its full potential, but pretty darn close.
 
(In response to the pH levels)

OHHH!! That makes so much sense why the stout turned out better. So let me recap and make sure I understand where my off flavors are theoretically coming from. The twang may be coming from chemicals in my tap water and the lack of malty flavor could be from the mash not being quite at the right temperature..? The pH issue def makes more sense now because I didn't start noticing a twang flavor with my beer until I stopped using store bought water. I personally have no issue with spending another $4-6 on a huge pack of bottled water if it's going to improve my beer.

(In response to the fermentation and starter with the smack packs)

I'm not saying I disagree but based on what I've witnessed over the last three batches (stout, chai amber, and my lemon and orange wheat) they've all three had very strong fermentations that lasted a good week before settling down. The stout was the first time I used a smackpack and I was thoroughly impressed with the performance. It made me realize the second pumpkin ale I made didn't have a strong fermentation at all. As I mentioned earlier it was way too cold for it and I didn't know it at the time. All I"m saying is I don't feel that concerned with the fermentation but I'll admit....I probably 'think' I know more about it than I really do haha. You can only learn but so much in a year. If I can find some good video tutorials (major visual learner) on how to make a starter I may give it a shot. But I don't have any DME laying around. The visual learning thing is the same reason I don't rack secondary or take readings.

(GOOD NEWS and perfect timing!!)

I woke up this morning to get an email from Midwest. They've got a trifecta sale going on. Buy two get the third AG kit free. Excellent timing for the new plan on brewing the same thing multiple times.
 
5) car boy and fermentation - using smack packs and temp controllers, I'm 99% positive I'm doing this part right.
6) aging in carboy - I usually do 3-4 weeks. (I'm ready for heat..whatever) I don't do gravity readings. I have my reasons, we'll leave it at that. I know it's frowned upon.

Do you do starters? A healthy pitch rate is key. Also, and I know I will get flak for this, you really should do a secondary. That's where a lot of off flavors get processed into other stuff that doesn't taste bad.
 
Do you do starters? A healthy pitch rate is key. Also, and I know I will get flak for this, you really should do a secondary. That's where a lot of off flavors get processed into other stuff that doesn't taste bad.

Starters- I may do it this next go round if I can find some good vids on how to do it as I need visuals. Terrible reading comprehension. ADD sucks..

Pitch rate - could you elaborate? I'm still not sure I understand what a pitch rate is. I'm guessing the amount of active yeast cells??

Secondary - haha, we'll just agree to disagree. I'll let others shell out the flak haha. If after I change up the water and get starters going from here out and I'm still tasting twang then I'll go back to using the bucket and then racking to the carboy. But for me, I switched strictly to the carboy because my bucket developed an air leak uptop and I couldn't see any action. I like knowing there's a healthy krausen developing.

EDIT: unless you have evidence to suggest my 3-4 aging system is picking up off flavors from the dead yeast cells at the bottom...
 
So let me recap and make sure I understand where my off flavors are theoretically coming from. The twang may be coming from chemicals in my tap water...

Not chemicals per se, but residual alkalinity from either bicarbonate or carbonate levels - minerals. This results in mash pH being higher than 5.6, perhaps significantly, and - for technical reasons unbeknownst to me - a harsh bitterness that ruins the beer.

My wife actually called it "soapy" and while I can't say I sensed that, it was the key to a Google session that helped me pin down the cause of my own water problems. Apparently somebody else out there on the interwebs had the same description (go figure).
 
Starters- I may do it this next go round if I can find some good vids on how to do it as I need visuals. Terrible reading comprehension. ADD sucks..

Pitch rate - could you elaborate? I'm still not sure I understand what a pitch rate is. I'm guessing the amount of active yeast cells??

Secondary - haha, we'll just agree to disagree. I'll let others shell out the flak haha. If after I change up the water and get starters going from here out and I'm still tasting twang then I'll go back to using the bucket and then racking to the carboy. But for me, I switched strictly to the carboy because my bucket developed an air leak uptop and I couldn't see any action. I like knowing there's a healthy krausen developing.

EDIT: unless you have evidence to suggest my 3-4 aging system is picking up off flavors from the dead yeast cells at the bottom...

Starters are quite easy. Google Northern Brewer yeast starter and there is a pretty simple PDF. Or check out youtube.

Pitch rate refers the the amount of yeast pitched. Google yeast calculator and one of the many will help you find the appropriate amount of yeast you should be pitching given your OG and volume. I use Brewers Friend's calculator. Basically, I tell it how many gal I am doing (5.25gal) what my OG is (say 1.071)and what type of yeast am I using (dry packet, slurry, liquid yeast). This will then tell you how many yeast cells you should be pitching (we will say this example calls for 400billion cells).... So 400billion is my pitching rate.

I use liquid most of the time. It will then ask for the mfg date to accurately depict yeast viability (your 3 month old smackpack no longer contains 100billion cells) . It will then let you customize your starter size and starter OG (typical is ~ 1.030) and it will calculate how much yeast that starter will produce. If your end product is > the calculated pitching rate, it will show up in green and you are good to go. If its < the estimated pitching rate, you need to do a second starter, or you could up the OG of your original starter to get it to the appropriate pitching rate.

Starters not only make better beer by allowing you to pitch an appropriate amount of yeast, but save some $$ as well. It would take 4 smackpacks (assuming they are all recently manufactured) to hit the example pitching rate above. Or you could build up your own cells from one smackpack and some DME (which a 3# bag of DME should net several starters)
 
If you're not going to do a starter then you'd be better off using dry yeast. Even if you just sprinkle it in the fermenter dry you'll have a better pitch rate than a smack pack by itself.
 
I have 7 batches in myself, all all grain. I'm no expert obviously, but I have found mash temps and water chemistry are of great concern. As is proper yeast pitching. I found a couple of tap water profiles on the web for my location. Plugged them into an easy water calculator and made some adjustments (predominantly RO and CaCl). Working with your mash tun should help get your temps right. I pour in about 180 F water, let my tun preheat for 15 minutes. If it's still to hot for dough in, just stir a little bit. A good thermometer really helps.
I am just trying to perfect 1 recipe for now. If you choose to keep trying different recipes, your water prep should reflect that. I KNOW it seems over whelming at first, but I consider it a significant part of the brewing process. IMHO, once the boil has begun, the hard work is over. Cheers.
 
If you're not going to do a starter then you'd be better off using dry yeast. Even if you just sprinkle it in the fermenter dry you'll have a better pitch rate than a smack pack by itself.


You very well may have just saved me a ton of money with that comment. Never would have thought that.
 
You very well may have just saved me a ton of money with that comment. Never would have thought that.

If you use dry yeast I suggest follow instructions to re-hydrate it. It's pretty easy and you can find instructions on this site. A lot of yeast cells will die if you shock them by tossing it in the wort dry.
 
Starters- I may do it this next go round if I can find some good vids on how to do it as I need visuals. Terrible reading comprehension. ADD sucks..

Pitch rate - could you elaborate? I'm still not sure I understand what a pitch rate is. I'm guessing the amount of active yeast cells??

Secondary - haha, we'll just agree to disagree. I'll let others shell out the flak haha. If after I change up the water and get starters going from here out and I'm still tasting twang then I'll go back to using the bucket and then racking to the carboy. But for me, I switched strictly to the carboy because my bucket developed an air leak uptop and I couldn't see any action. I like knowing there's a healthy krausen developing.

EDIT: unless you have evidence to suggest my 3-4 aging system is picking up off flavors from the dead yeast cells at the bottom...


Pitch rate is the # of cells per mL, you usually want about 1,000,000 per mL. That will probably help if you refuse to do secondary. You don't need to use buckets, just primary in a 6.5 carboy and finish it in a 5 gallon. If you follow good techniques you should lose the "green beer" character, the diacetyl will dissipate and most of the fusel alcohols should age out.
 
With regards to improving your process. Without a hydrometer it is impossible to know how effective you are being.

A hydrometer is useful for a myriad of reasons the least important of which is knowing how much alcohol you are making.
It will give you an idea as to
1: how good a job you did with your mash ( preboil sample) and therefore if you make changes to your mashing process will let you know their efficacy

2: what your brew house efficiency is. (Post boil sample). This will enable you to better formulate future recipes and better target appropriate OG/IBU ratios which will have a bearing on the balance and flavor of the beer

3: what stage your fermentation is at should you want to ramp up temperatures to facilitate a better attenuation and perhaps dryer beer.

4: the final gravity: the alcohol content. Is it consistent with the style of beer you were trying to make. Do guests or even yourself want to know if they can have 1,2,3 beers and still be ok to drive or work the next day. Not critical but certainly useful info..

In summary. I truly value my accurate, correctly calibrated hydrometer. I would encourage the utilization of one.

also as others have alluded to. Obtaining correct mash temperatures is a must if the wort is to contain the appropriate levels of fermentable sugars. What are you wanting. A dry or malty beer or somewhere in between. There are lots of online tools available.

I am a new brewer too. 1 year in. I believe it is imperative to really explore the science of brewing. I am no guru but from reading the thread I think it would be a fair assessment to say that there may be some gaps in your knowledge. We all have these gaps. Reducing them should be a goal. Understand the various chemical and biological processes involved and the ways to coax them to do what you, the brewer, wants. That is, refine your process to enable you to make the beer you have carefully planned; not the beer your systems imperfections dictate.

I would look at mash temps, and pitch rate first and foremost. I generally brew simpler recipes. Edwort and Yooper among others have some great ones on this site.

Wishing you every success in your brewing. Best of luck.
 
It's definitely caused by not taking gravity readings!

But really just a thought because I believe this happened to me.

My first sparge arm was built from cheap pvc pipe. They make two kinds of this white pipe one is pvc and the other cpvc I think. Cheap pvc can leach solvents when exposed to high temperature liquids. I had a dozen brews under my belt when I stumbled across this information and was chasing down off flavors. Now I was changing a lot about my processes throughout when I made this change but I strongly believe it may have contributed. Check your system to make sure your hot liquids aren't being exposed to plastics that could leach chemicals.

Other than that grab a BJCP Beer Scoresheet and try to pick the proper term for your off flavor. Since "soapy" or "twangy" don't show up as descriptors on that sheet maybe picking one or two proper terms will help the qualified (not me) to help you pin it down.
 
4) yep, forget to mention that. I have a wort chiller now. (Told y'all I quadrupled on my supplies ;D ) Went from chilling for a ****ing hour to 15-20 minutes tops. The kettle lid stays on it while the chilling for the most part.

5) as I figured, 3-4 weeks should eliminate the need for readings unless I'm A) in a hurry to bottle and get wasted or B) desperately want to know how much alcohol I'm making which I'm not.

6) I used to use store bought water and then we bought a house and I guess I've put too much faith in the tap water. The stout tasted great but I am willing to bet any off flavors were masked from the strength of the natural stout flavor.

Couple of pieces I'd like to toss in here that may help you. Others have made some great comments on the importance of yeast pitching rates and temperatures, so hopefully you'll follow their advice.

It's great that you are now cooling your wort much quicker. Definitely a step in the right direction. I would suggest, though, that you leave the lid off the kettle. Some may disagree (mostly for fear of contaminants finding their way in), but you are also going to run into a bit of a concern with DMS. To put simply, DMS is a volatile off-flavor compound that adds a cooked vegetable flavor to beer (think creamed corn). It is usually evaporated during boiling, at a percentage rate equal to boil times, but will usually always be present in the final product (mostly because you won't boil off all of it, and DMSO can be converted by most yeasts to DMS during fermentation, even though some of it is "scrubbed" by CO2). This is one reason why fast cooling after boil is important. Now, one problem you will find is that DMS is still being produced during the cooling phase (and is unavoidable), and by leaving the lid on, you are allowing DMS to precipitate and be reabsorbed into the wort.

As mentioned earlier, gravity readings aren't exactly all about measuring alcohol content. I think your reasoning as to why you aren't concerned about gravity comes from being slightly less knowledgeable about brewing. Gavin C's reasoning is very sound, and I highly suggest you follow his advice. In short, it's all about dialing in. If you don't measure gravity (during all-grain, it's very important to measure gravity of each running during sparging), then you truly have no idea about the fermentables content in your wort, and in the end, that's a major factor in the final result. Will it be beer? Absolutely. But you're on a quest to make GOOD beer, so don't expect the yeast to work miracles for you (although when you learn more about yeast, they are quite amazing to say the least). Plus, it only takes seconds to measure.

Also, water chemistry. Learn it. Others have chimed in, and have great information to offer on it. Ultimately, this is very likely the cause of your twangy flavor. Alkalinity is usually the culprit. Mash pH and temperature will have a major impact on flavor for even the tiniest of changes.

Lastly, I agree with you that it probably isn't the more "exotic" ingredients imparting these off flavors. Don't misunderstand me here. However, if you want to fix your problem, simple is best. It's cheaper, and it will help you dial in your process first. You have some gaps in your process that I'd work on first before straying too far away in style. You'll be happy you did.

Good luck, and I can't wait to hear your triumphant exclamation that you destroyed this problem! :tank:
 
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