Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > secondary transfer
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-24-2009, 01:44 PM   #1
Zorbarose
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 25
Default secondary transfer

Do i have to wait till the hydrometer reads a final gravity to move to the secondary? or should i let the last stages of fermentation finish in there to come to a final gravity? i know the rule 1-2-3; 1 week in primary, 2 in secondary, 3 in bottles.

__________________
Zorbarose is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2009, 01:55 PM   #2
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,805
Liked 2777 Times on 1661 Posts
Likes Given: 3489

Default

If you choose to secondary (Quite a lot of us don't bother and leave our beers alone in primary for 3 weeks to a month) you wait til gravity has stabilised (usualy by take readings over a span of three days.)

"Secondary fermentation" is a misnomer and a mistake many beginning brewers don't grasp at first looking at it(because the names are similar)....the secondary VESSEL has nothing to do with he process of "secondary fermentation" which is part of the normal yeast life cycles, one of the stages of fermentation.

The secondary we are referring to is also called a "brite tank" it is the carboy where people move their beer to clear, or to add fruit, or hops for dry hopping... and to let the yeast and other things fall down...It's to clear the beer....but if you leave your beer in primary for several weeks you don't need to worry...

Here's John Palmer's explanation of the Secondary fermentation Phase

Quote:
The reactions that take place during the conditioning phase are primarily a function of the yeast. The vigorous primary stage is over, the majority of the wort sugars have been converted to alcohol, and a lot of the yeast cells are going dormant - but some are still active.

The Secondary Phase allows for the slow reduction of the remaining fermentables. The yeast have eaten most all of the easily fermentable sugars and now start to turn their attention elsewhere. The yeast start to work on the heavier sugars like maltotriose. Also, the yeast clean up some of the byproducts they produced during the fast-paced primary phase. But this stage has its dark side too.

Under some conditions, the yeast will also consume some of the compounds in the trub. The "fermentation" of these compounds can produce several off-flavors. In addition, the dormant yeast on the bottom of the fermentor begin excreting more amino and fatty acids. Leaving the post-primary beer on the trub and yeast cake for too long (more than about three weeks) will tend to result in soapy flavors becoming evident. Further, after very long times the yeast begin to die and break down - autolysis, which produces yeasty or rubbery/fatty/meaty flavors and aromas. For these reasons, it can be important to get the beer off of the trub and dormant yeast during the conditioning phase.

There has been a lot of controversy within the homebrewing community on the value of racking beers, particularly ales, to secondary fermentors. Many seasoned homebrewers have declared that there is no real taste benefit and that the dangers of contamination and the cost in additional time are not worth what little benefit there may be. While I will agree that for a new brewer's first, low gravity, pale beer that the risks probably outweigh the benefits; I have always argued that through careful transfer, secondary fermentation is beneficial to nearly all beer styles. But for now, I will advise new brewers to only use a single fermentor until they have gained some experience with racking and sanitation.

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

It's easy to see how confusing the terms are...that's why we try to get outta the habit of saying secondary fermentation...and say secondary...or bright tank (mostly just secondary, dropping fermenter or fermentation, since fermentation should be finished before you rack it to the secondary.

If you do choose to use a "bright tank" it's best to wait til fermentation is complete, you know that by taking 2 gravity readings over a 3 day period. If the grav hasn't changed, then you can rack it without having a krausen develop...though sometimes it does anyway.

Many of us nowadays forgo a bright tank and just leave our beers in primary for 3-4 weeks, then bottle...We only use a secondary if we are adding something to the beer, such as fruit, dryhopping or oaking the beer, otherwise we just leave the beer alone and let the yeasts clean up the beer at their own pace. Or if we added fruit, like pumpkin in the boil and want to get the beer off the goop.

Hope this helps!

__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew


Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2009, 02:52 PM   #3
aubrey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Acworth, Ga
Posts: 247
Liked 2 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Should you wait until the grav is stable *and* the krausen falls? Or just rack out from under the krausen and try not to suck it up into the cane?

__________________
Elkins Creek Brewing Company
On Deck:
Primary: Air
Secondary: Bavarian Hefewizen (extract)
Bottle: Blue Moon clone, Sam Adams Boston Ale Clone, Christmas Chocolate Stout (All Grain)
Keg: AHS West Coast Pale Ale, BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde (All Grain)
aubrey is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2009, 03:01 PM   #4
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,805
Liked 2777 Times on 1661 Posts
Likes Given: 3489

Default

If the krausen hasn't fallen more than likely it's NOT finished fermenting...

I wouldn't even be taking a hydro reading if there was still a krausen...

That's why things like the 1-2-3 rule are faulty, and just basic rules of thumb and shouldn't just be used blindly (without taking hydro readings to make sure.)

For example we know that sometimes Fermentation can take 24-72 hours to start. So if it takes 72 hours for fermentation to actually begin, and you blindly rack at 7 days...there's a great possibility that you are racking mid fermentation.

That's why so many "is my beer infected" threads are by people freaked out because suddenly they have a krausen growing on it. And if you've never seen a krausen since it's in the bucket, it can look freaky in your brand new shiny brite tank. The new krauzen appeared because fermentation is still occuring.

And honestly the same with the 3 weeks in the bottle....That generally works for an average grav beer at 70 degrees if your place is at 65 degrees, more than likely they won't be carbed up....Mine in my loft right now are taking 4-6 weeks to carb up actually...

So as you can see things like 1-2-3s are just "rules of thumb" and are not etched in stone.

__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew


Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-24-2009, 03:17 PM   #5
aubrey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Acworth, Ga
Posts: 247
Liked 2 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I ask because the WLP400 I used took off like a rocket within 12 hours and I had to put a blowoff tube on it. Now, the remnants of the krausen is caked on the inside of the better bottle so thick I can't tell for sure where krausen stops and caked-on-gunk begins. I know fermentation is still under way because its bubbling and I can see the yeast churning away in the carboy. I've taken a couple readings to check its progress because of some temperature concerns and its getting close to FG, so I was just curious.

__________________
Elkins Creek Brewing Company
On Deck:
Primary: Air
Secondary: Bavarian Hefewizen (extract)
Bottle: Blue Moon clone, Sam Adams Boston Ale Clone, Christmas Chocolate Stout (All Grain)
Keg: AHS West Coast Pale Ale, BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde (All Grain)
aubrey is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 02:53 PM   #6
Mantis
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 98
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
If the krausen hasn't fallen more than likely it's NOT finished fermenting...

I wouldn't even be taking a hydro reading if there was still a krausen...
Sorry to bump/resurrect this long gone thread, but I have a question about this statement.

The krausen on my beer hasn't fallen and it has been 3 weeks in the primary.

Would it still not be advisable to take a gravity reading at this point?
__________________

Primary: IPA
Primary: Smoked Porter (My first recipe built by me!)
Secondary: Why?
Bottled: Apfelwein, DeathBrewers Franziskaner Dunkel Clone, Brownie Porter, Patersbier, Nut Brown

Mantis is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 03:02 PM   #7
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,805
Liked 2777 Times on 1661 Posts
Likes Given: 3489

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
Sorry to bump/resurrect this long gone thread, but I have a question about this statement.

The krausen on my beer hasn't fallen and it has been 3 weeks in the primary.

Would it still not be advisable to take a gravity reading at this point?
THere's never a non advisable time to take a grav ready, krausen or not. Whenever you want to know what your beer is doing, THAT's when the right time to take one is.
__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 03:03 PM   #8
phatuna
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 793
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

As long as you sanitize, you can take a hydrometer reading anytime.

__________________
phatuna is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 03:07 PM   #9
phatuna
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 793
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
THere's never a non advisable time ...
Now that is a double negative
__________________
phatuna is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2009, 03:08 PM   #10
Mantis
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 98
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Awesome, thanks guys!

Gravity reading will soon be taken. If it has finished, just rack from beneath krausen, correct?

__________________

Primary: IPA
Primary: Smoked Porter (My first recipe built by me!)
Secondary: Why?
Bottled: Apfelwein, DeathBrewers Franziskaner Dunkel Clone, Brownie Porter, Patersbier, Nut Brown

Mantis is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
? about my transfer to secondary 1st ever WayneTree Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 02-18-2009 02:33 PM
Can I transfer to my secondary if..... dsoto75 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 02-04-2009 03:33 AM
transfer to secondary FEARDIZ Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 10-22-2007 10:17 PM
Transfer to secondary BlendieOfIndie Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 8 09-30-2007 02:50 AM
Transfer to Secondary?? mayday1019 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 04-09-2006 01:29 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS