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Old 07-02-2010, 01:37 PM   #1
chriscraig
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Default Sanitizing in dishwasher - A cautionary tale

Today, I was about to bottle my second batch of brew. I have 40 or so Grolsch bottles cleaned and ready for sanitizing. I look over and see an empty dishwasher, and decide to be lazy and just use the sanitize feature.

Well, I'm here to tell you that this is not a good idea. When it was all done, I started emptying the bottles out of the dishwasher and saw that there were little bits of food and such stuck on the inside of the bottles.

So, now I had to dig out my bottle brush (again) and clean all the bottles all over again.

I guess it never pays to take shortcuts



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Old 07-02-2010, 01:39 PM   #2
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Sanitizing in the dishwasher is fine as long as you're just using the steam dry feature...I wash out my bottles with my jet washer and then steam them for sanitizing...works like a charm.

If you have food bits in your bottles there must be some part of a wash cycle happening, which is going to be bad right off the bat, as you might be getting residual soap up in your bottles.



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Old 07-02-2010, 01:48 PM   #3
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I know a lot of folks swear by it, and I've kept my mouth shut because I don't even have a dishwasher, but I've always wondered about using dishwashers.

Seems to me that although the main areas of the dishwasher appear clean, there are a ton of nooks and crannies in those things that could hide plenty of biomatter. Even inside all the holes on those spinning arm thingys.

There's some new dishwasher soap or whatever that shows supposedly where all the crap can hide in a dishwasher and this detergent supposedly cleans everywhere. But the pic was enough to further get me wondering about micro food/biomatter particles in those things.

There's this experiment here that shows that some cross contamination does occur.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJP-4BY3PMB-2&_user=147018&_coverDate=04%2F30%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_ fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_ searchStrId=1388909822&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C 000012179&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=147018& md5=3c20f13cb39902835a8501391c2e00c3

I don't know if you have to be on a university/hospital computer, like I am to access the article free of charge, so I will just quote the abstract and the conclusion if you want.

Quote:
Abstract

Dishwashers are used in central hospital kitchens and ward kitchens to provide clean crockery. Soil recipes based on international standards were tested in order to evaluate the performance of a general dishwasher. In normal use of dishwashers, adherent soils are left on the crockery before cleaning. Different adherent soils, both with and without bacterial contamination, were used to show the effectiveness of the dishwasher to remove this type of soil. It was shown that contamination will occur from the dishwater to crockery with adherent soil. These results demonstrate the importance of cleaning soiled surfaces of crockery mechanically in the dishwashing process. Otherwise cross-contamination, and thereby the spread of infections, may occur.
Quote:
4. Discussion

The purpose of our study was to verify our hypothesis that in order to obtain clean crockery, it is important to get the crockery mechanically clean.[11.] We used international standard test soils (A, [4.] B, [4.] C [5. and 6.]) and test soils with increased adherence (I, II, III). The choice of soil with increased adherence was also based on suggestions from other international standards. [12. and 13.] Test soils A and C were easily removed in dishwashers. Test soil B was more difficult and demanded a larger flux of water in the cleaning process, which is obvious from our results ( Figure 4). [14. and 15.]

In the professional kitchen the soil is more adhesive as in test soils I, II and III. These types of soil will not be removed in a dishwashing process for normally soiled crockery, (Figure 5). There is always a risk of cross-contamination with soil residues. [8. and 14.] In test soil C, the bacteria were moved from the metal test plates to the wash-water in the dishwater tank of the machine. [15.] Wash-water samples from other dishwashing machines in hospital kitchens and restaurant kitchens have shown bacterial concentrations in the order of 103–10[4.] cfu/mL.[16.]

From the experiment with test soil C, the result showed that no bacteria remained on the metal test plates after a normal dishwashing process. However, using test soils I and II with the bacterial load, there was hardly any decrease in bacterial activity due to the dishwashing process (Table I). This suggests that if the soil contains bacteria and is not properly removed, bacteria survive and are still viable in spite of the high temperature, of the dishwashing process. The dishwater used in these tests has comparable data concerning temperatures and cycle times to other dishwashers used in hospital kitchens. [3., 7., 8. and 17.] The thermal resistance test verifies that E. faecium can survive at much higher temperatures than is achieved in dishwashers.[3., 7. and 15.] Several other types of bacteria survive the temperatures produced by standard dishwashers and could cause serious infections in hospitals. [1., 14. and 17. J. Francis and S.W.B. Newsom, Evaluation of dishwashing machines in four hospitals. J Hosp Infect 9 (1987), pp. 294–297. Article | PDF (250 K) | View Record in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus (5)17.]

Another risk is cross-contamination from wash-water to crockery. Our results show, that in all test soils I, II and III cross-contamination was detected (Figure 6). However, on the plates that were visually clean, no cross-contamination was found. There is an obvious risk for the spread of infection through improperly cleaned crockery. Having survived, the kitchen provides suitable temperature and humidity for bacterial growth. [3.]

Porcelain plates and other types of crockery are used in wards and staff canteens all over the hospital. If the crockery is contaminated by bacteria from any ward, cross-contamination can occur in the cleaning process of the dishwashers. Bacteria could then be spread to other wards. To reduce the risk of spread, it is necessary to ensure that the crockery is mechanically cleaned.
If anyone wants the whole article and can't click on it, let me know, and I'll figure something out, if you guys want it here, I will post the whole thing.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:52 PM   #4
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I'm with Revvy. I have a dishwasher and I would never rely on it to sanitize my bottles. I go through a lot of trouble to make some damn fine beer, I'm not going to hope that my dishwasher didn't shoot some of last weeks dinner up into my bottles and spoil it. I'm kinda a bottle Nazi anyway, I take pride in my bottles being scorched earth cleaned and sanitized before I package.

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Old 07-02-2010, 01:56 PM   #5
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2 things...
run your dishwasher empty first to clean it and even if you get little bits in there, is is still sanitary, just no clean.

Now I tried teh dishwasher method before, I prefer to clean em by hand. I never use a bottle brush, a triple rinse when i empty a bottle and then rinse, sanitize, rinse before bottling. Done!

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Old 07-02-2010, 03:15 PM   #6
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I run my bottles through twice... once the night before then the day of i out a little bit of step one sanitizer in there and they come out golden... That steam can kill any type of bacteria.

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Old 07-02-2010, 03:17 PM   #7
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A dishwasher can be great for cleaning the bottles, which is what I've done before. I'm not so sure about sanitizing them, however.

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Old 07-02-2010, 03:26 PM   #8
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I'm a brewing noob. But seriously, if you've got food particles stuck to your bottles, then you've got issues with your dishwasher. It isn't draining. Maybe its overloaded or or something. If food is stuck to your bottles, then its stuck to your dishes too.

I've never had issues with food particles being stuck on dishes (or bottles) when I run our DW.

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Old 07-02-2010, 03:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanecb View Post
A dishwasher can be great for cleaning the bottles, which is what I've done before. I'm not so sure about sanitizing them, however.
Bass akwards




And it's a dishwasher, not a garbage disposal. Try rinsing the dishes before putting them in.
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billc68 View Post
2 things...
run your dishwasher empty first to clean it and even if you get little bits in there, is is still sanitary, just no clean.

Now I tried teh dishwasher method before, I prefer to clean em by hand. I never use a bottle brush, a triple rinse when i empty a bottle and then rinse, sanitize, rinse before bottling. Done!
I am a triple rinser too, but be wary, the Montrachet yeast in carbed Apfelwein will NOT come out with just a triple rinse. Just ask half of my IPA last summer that turned into nasty, phenolic gushers.


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