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Old 02-26-2011, 09:25 PM   #1
RadtasticRix
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Default Sanitation (dead horse, i know), and DME

I have been watching an endless number of podcasts and videos trying to learn. Most seem to add cold water to the hot wort to bring the water level up to 5 gallons.. does this water need to be boiled first? I have made 4 batches now and have been using water straight from the tap.. seems to work. The fellow on this "Homebrewer TV" also said that you should not rinse after you sanitize because it brings you back to square one... is he right?

PS.. Can DME be used in direct replacement of corn sugar? will this improve the beer? do I use the same amount?

THANKS!

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Old 02-26-2011, 09:43 PM   #2
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I would think adding cold water to the wort it just easier than bringing water up to a boil before adding it. There's chlorine in tap water and rinsing has never caused me any problems. Boiling dissipates chlorine so it could be argued that tap water cold is actually good for rinsing. Pound for pound DME is a little better IMO because it's actually wort, "improve" is relative to your tastes. Using more than 10% is supposed to make beer cidery. You can sub it out no problem.

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Old 02-26-2011, 09:47 PM   #3
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Not sure about the DME but as far as adding water to the wort I have always used unsanitized sprint water from the grocery store. I also know of other brewers that use water right from the tap. I have never had an issues doing this. Homebrewer tv is also correct i that you should not rinse after sanitizing.

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Old 02-26-2011, 10:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by RadtasticRix View Post
I have been watching an endless number of podcasts and videos trying to learn. Most seem to add cold water to the hot wort to bring the water level up to 5 gallons.. does this water need to be boiled first? I have made 4 batches now and have been using water straight from the tap.. seems to work.
Here's my standard rant to put it in perspective...I think it come more from new brewers little understanding of things, then any revelence. I think because we're afraid of this new beer making thing when we start out (heck half the time we're afraid were gonna make something toxic and poison our friends, OR that if we look at our beer wrong it's going to die a horrible death or both) that we forget some basic truths about the world. I wrote this last week when three folks posted something about this in the same day...

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Do you brush your teeth with your tap water? Do you shower with it and maybe get some in your mouth? Do you use ice made with the water coming into your house? Do you Drink it?

Do you live in a city that is currently having a boil water advisory?

Have we been so brainwashed from buying little plastic bottles of overpriced water (that may have ALSO come out of a tap, and MAY have less governement regulations than our municipal water) that we have forgotten that that sink in our kitchen isn't JUST used to wash dishes with? I have always found this fear that folks have of their own water ridiculous. If you can drink your water you can brew with it (all arguments about chlorimines aside, I'm talking about sanitization.) If you can drink the water out of your tap without getting sick, you can top off your fermenter with it. I've done it all my brewing career and NEVER had any issues.

I've just found this blind trust people have over those tiny plastic bottles over our own home water is ludicrious....

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Let's start with an independent four year study of the bottled water industry, completed in 1999 by the Natural Resources Defense Council.1 The report of the results along with a petition to the FDA stated that there were "major gaps in bottled water regulation and that bottled water is not necessarily safer than tap water". The study's principal findings were that although most bottled water seems good quality, "some bottled water contains bacterial contaminants, and several brands of bottled water contain synthetic organic chemicals (such as industrial solvents, chemicals from plastic, or trihalomethanes - the by-products of the chemical reaction between chlorine and organic matter in water) or inorganic contaminants (such as arsenic, a known carcinogen) in at least some bottles".

.........

This leads us to the subject of the chlorination of our public drinking water in the USA. This law is in effect to sterilize and disinfect the water, eradicating all types of bacteria.
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According to the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC), which is a nonprofit organization devoted to protecting health and the environment, more than 25% of all bottled water comes from a public source. That's right - it's the same water that's piped to homes and businesses.

How can that happen? Because they can. No one is demanding truth in advertising from water bottling companies!

Standards for purity exist, of course. BUT ...Bottled water purity is regulated by the FDA, and because the FDA puts low priority on water, bottlers are inspected and tested less than once a year. According to one FDA official, it's the manufacturer's responsibility to ensure that the product complies with laws and regulations.

The result: Some do, and some don't. And even worse, if the water is bottled and delivered within the same state, there are NO regulations.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulates tap water, so if a bottler uses a public source that has passed their inspection, it should be OK to drink - right? Not necessarily.

In tests done by the NRDC, at least one sample from a third of the brands contained bacterial or chemical contaminants,
including carcinogens in levels exceeding state or industry standards. Not to be argumentative, but I have to wonder why any level of carcinogens is OK.
My understanding is that our municipal water sources are tested several times a day. That's how they are able to have a boil water declaration if something is detected.

Personally...I trust my tap water and my plumbing more than I think it's worth buying water, or bothering to boil it, if I don't have a BWA in my town.
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The fellow on this "Homebrewer TV" also said that you should not rinse after you sanitize because it brings you back to square one... is he right?
THANKS!
You want your sanitizer coming in contact with your beer and anything you've sanitized. Most of the sanitzers we use, especially Starsan and iodophor are No rinse/wet contact sanitizers. They are literally double edged swords. They kill two ways. They kill everything on the object prior to sanitizing, and then as long as they are still wet they form a sanitizer barrier that kills everything that comes into contact with object.

If you let the sanitizer dry any micro organism that comes in contact with the sanitized object, rather than being killed by it, makes the object no longer sanitzed.

If you let it dry you are reducing it's efficacy by 50%

You really want to sanitize right at the time you are using the thing you are sanitizing. And let the wort/beer flow on top of it.

I put a lot of good info and tips of effectively using sanitizers in here. http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/sani...uestion-54932/[/QUOTE]

At proper dillutions no rinse sanitisers do not affect the taste of the beer, if they did, they wouldn't be no rinse now, would they? In fact starsan breaks down to some of the ingredients in coca cola. Really benign.

Remember don't fear the foam.

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Old 02-27-2011, 07:11 PM   #5
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Wow! that was quick, thanks everyone! About the DME, my town just has a small brew shop with syrup kits.. no hops, no grains. A roadtrip is obviously in order but is there any way to improve these kits? my beer is drinkable but I would not say its that good. The kits seem to settle on 5 cups of corn sugar, if I did 4 cups sugar, 1 DME, or 5 cups of DME instead of sugar, could this be better? I feel like most of the videos i've seen people do not use sugar. Maybe my understanding of DME possibly being a replacement for sugar in these kits is totally wrong. Thank-you all very much for your input maybe the answer is just to make a trip to the city and find some grains..

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Old 02-27-2011, 07:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by RadtasticRix View Post
Wow! that was quick, thanks everyone! About the DME, my town just has a small brew shop with syrup kits.. no hops, no grains. A roadtrip is obviously in order but is there any way to improve these kits? my beer is drinkable but I would not say its that good. The kits seem to settle on 5 cups of corn sugar, if I did 4 cups sugar, 1 DME, or 5 cups of DME instead of sugar, could this be better? I feel like most of the videos i've seen people do not use sugar. Maybe my understanding of DME possibly being a replacement for sugar in these kits is totally wrong. Thank-you all very much for your input maybe the answer is just to make a trip to the city and find some grains..
It just seems wrong to use plain sugar to ferment into beer. After you adjust the recipe in any significant way to remove the need for table sugar, you would be way better of making that road trip or ordering some of the great recipe's from NB or other places. Even with beer from extract, there's no reason to settle for 'drinkable'.

(Welcome back, Revvy)
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:23 PM   #7
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I would forget you ever heard of corn sugar except to carbonate with. It is an inferior way to get the gravity you want. You can use DME or LME if you want. Both of them are actually sugars from a wort and will provide you the ease of non All Grain brewing and improve your results a lot.
Oh, and as far as tap water? What Revvy said.

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Old 02-27-2011, 07:32 PM   #8
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...corn sugar except to carbonate with. It is an inferior way to get the gravity you want.....
For all the new people, this is opinion not law do what makes you happy especially if happy means you choose to take the more "authentic" by using malt extracts as fermentable sugar. Using more than 10% by weight of dextrose will give you a cidery flavor and you'll end up with one of those creepy smirnoff (IMO) abominations.
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