Pliny Recipe Feedback
I posted this in the All Grain - Pliny the Elder' thread last week, but haven't received any responses so I thought I would post here hoping to get some validation or recommendations for the recipe. The original recipe in the thread is for five gallons so I divided everything in half for a 2.5 gallon batch as this is the largest batch size for which I can do a full boil and cool efficiently.
The all-grain recipe called for 12 lbs of 2-row, and later in the thread it was suggested to replace the 2-row with 7.2 lbs of DME for extract, so my 2.5 gallon extract modified recipe is as follows:
7.2 lbs pale DME12 pounds 2row
4oz Crystal 45 malt
4oz Carapils malt
6oz corn sugar added to boil
1.75oz Columbus hops @ 90 minutes
.375oz Columbus hops @ 45 minutes
.5oz Simcoe hops @ 30 minutes
.5oz Centennial hops @ 0 minutes
1.25oz Simcoe hops @ 0 minutes
.5oz Columbus dryhop
.5oz Simcoe dryhop
.5oz Centennial dryhop
add an additional .125 columbus, .125 simcoe, and .125 oz of cententennial to the dryhop after a week of adding the first dryhop addition
steep grain 30 minutes at 150; add 1/3 DME at beginning of boil; add remaining DME and corn sugar at flameout
Does the recipe and process sound good? Would anyone do any thing differently?
I've never had Pliny before so I'm hoping this turns out to be the hop bomb that everybody says it is.
I did a Pliny extract 2 weeks ago and your recipe looks similar to mine, but almost half. I think you have twice as much DME listed as you need. Run that through BeerSmith or something. You should be shooting for 1.070.I used a lb of corn sugar in my 5g batch cause I wanted it to dry it out more than straight DME could get me, so 6oz should be good, but you could probably go up to 8oz and adjust your DME to get your target OG. I also used .5lb each C40 and Carapils, so your 4oz of each falls right in line with mine. I don't have my recipe right in front of me, but I was right at 1.070 and ended at 1.012 IIRC.
Your hops look right on. I followed Vinnie's hop schedule except I didn't do a 90 min boil (no need in an extract), so I added the 90 to the wort as the grains steeped. Not in the grain bag, but in the wort, so when I pulled the grain bag, the hops stayed, then brought that to a boil and started the timer at 60. It smells and tastes amazing so far. 2nd Dry hop is going in tonight.
I also like the idea of adding the hops for the steep.
Did you transfer to secondary for dryhopping? How long did you do the first dryhop? Are you doing the second dryhop in the same container?
Thanks for the input!
I am dry hopping in the primary. I hadn't even checked gravity during the first week, but after 9 days it was done, so I added the 3oz first dry hop. I've been swirling the carboy because that amount of leaf hops just want to float. If you are using pellet, shouldn't be an issue. I'll be adding the second dry hop right to the primary with the first set as well. Then I'll rack next week.
IIRC Pliny recipe calls for a pound of sugar in 5G batch. 6oz is lower than that recipe, and your DME error has already been mentioned.
Not getting into whether 6 or 8 oz of sugar would be "better" but 8oz would be more "accurate" to the original recipe.
(edit: but for the record, I tend to decrease sugar amounts in recipes when possible).
It really depends on your brewhouse efficiency on what quantity of ingredients you use. The recipe that Vinnie gives out only gives you percentages; 87% 2-Row, 4% C-40, 4% CP, and 5% Dextrose.
When I plug these numbers into BeerSmith, I get 11lb 2-Row, .5lb C-40, .5lb CP, and .63 Corn Sugar to get the desired result (1.070 OG) at 75% efficiency. Not sure if I'm using BS wrong or don't quite understand.
I've never experimented, but it's my understanding that adding sugar helps dry out the beer. And, I believe that an extract batch has a given fermentables and since you can't control the mash temp to control fermentables, additional corn sugar might be needed to get the FG down so the sweetness is in line with PTE. Additional sugar may effect the mouth feel (make it thinner), so I believe this may be a trade off....again, correct me if I misunderstand.
To the OP, I also know that the PTE recipe calls for White Labs WLP001. I used Wyeast American Ale 1056 cause that's what was available to me at my LHBS. US-05 should be close, but may not be right on, up to you.
Also, I plugged in your recipe in BS, 3.5lb DME, 6oz CS, and 4oz ea C-40 and CP gives 1.070. If you want to up your corn sugar to 8oz, drop your DME down to 3.4lb.
Looking at my recipe and notes, I actually had an OG of 1.064 and FG of 1.013. The reason I intentionally shot for a lower OG was to make sure my FG was low enough to simulate PTE accurately. I didn't want to replace more DME with even more sugar to get the FG down, so I gave up a little alcohol in favor of a closer FG. PTE is 1.011 and I think you will find that if you start with 1.070, you might only hit 1.017-19 which would be too sweet. Unfortunately, the limitations are because of the extract and yeast. I know people have talked about adding some other types of yeast to lower the FG on some things, like using champagne yeast, but I'd want to really read up on it and maybe experiment on something really cheap to know what the effects are myself.
Also as a side note, I used Briess Pilsen DME. PTE is nice and light colored. Mine ended at 5.4 according to BS, but PTE is "7ish". If your DME is around 4 SRM, you will be around 7.
As far as yeast goes, I picked up us05 and wlp001 with the hopes of using wlp001 with a starter and us05 as a backup plan. I've built a stir plate so I'll probably go with the liquid yeast.
My understanding of carapils is that 1/2 lb will improve body and head retention of a five gallon batch, so I would think 4 oz would improve body for my recipe. Am I mistaken? Will this improvement counteract the thinner mouth feel that the sugar would give, or would they cancel each other out? My first beer was very thin so I would like to avoid that.
I'm not concerned about giving up a little alcohol in favor of a drier beer so I think I'll look at dropping the OG to around 1.065 and see what happens.
I really appreciate the input and BS entry. I'll be pretty excited if this ends up being a good beer with a big hop profile. My first batch was okay, my second was horrid, and my third through fifth batches (all gallons) were just BBS recipes that I did for the hell of it. So far they taste pretty good, but they don't excite me the way a big IPA does. Hopefully this will be the one.
It's argued that carapils isn't needed at all in an extract batch, so yes, it may balance out the additional sugar. Might even be too much. It crossed my mind. But I figured it won't ruin the beer. It will get drank no matter what!
It will end up a beer with a HUGE hop profile. I know I don't expect an exact match myself, but when we can get PTE, it's $8/pt. Low supply/high demand. So for me, even if it gets close, we will be very happy.
For my 1.064, it was 6lb DME and 1lb corn sugar. So you will probably want around 3lb 2oz +/- with .5 corn sugar.
Good luck. Let me know how it turns out! Mine goes in keg this weekend!
You don't need carapils. Carapils is already in extract. You will be need more corn sugar for drying the beer out. I doubt you will hit 1.011 FG anyway, but shoot for 10-15% corn sugar as opposed to the 6% used in the all grain recipe. Make a big, healthy, nasty yeast starter. A full volume boil is needed for this beer. So don't top off with any plain water. Plan on boiling 3.5 gallons down to 2.7 or 2.5 gallons if that's all you can fit in your kettle.
Great input! I will give that a try on the next one I do.
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