Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Please help, new brewer here
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-23-2014, 05:07 PM   #21
AlfA01
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 73
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yjie91 View Post
Hey AlfA0,

Thanks for the insight on bacteria present in tap water!

For the wort i boil for an extra 5-10 minutes after a rolling boil is reached before placing my LME in.

As for sanitisation after rinsing is done after the bleaching i use a food grade sanitiser such as Starsan to kill off any bacteria remaining in my fermenter due to the rinsing. I then close the lid (also applied with Starsan) to prevent any aerial bacteria from entering my fermenter.

I actually have been doing this quite religiously for all my batches; which is also the reason as to why i am so perplexed that even after performing all these sanitisation works, i still get infected beer.

A great big thanks for the insights and cheers from singapore!
And Cheers from Greece! Just thought I would offer you some suggestions to help with any possible solution to your problem. There is most probably an obvious contributor to the infections you are experiencing. I make wine and the water is not typically boiled then added to the mash.

I'll throw a curveball: are you using extract or grain? If grain, do you know where the grain comes from and how it is handled? Do you grind yourself? I personally have my brew-shop grind my grains--I trust them. But, you coud experience a mold or infection in the grains prior to you receiving them. There is a theory that the Salem Witches were burned at the stake because of such a grain infection being in the wheat. That is far out and probably not what you want to hear, but the fact remains that it is possible for grains to mold and develop bacteria that may not be killed during the brewing process.

Kick the ideas around and if I have any other ideas I'll send them to you.

Cheers,
AlfA01
__________________
“I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is a disgrace, that two become a lawfirm, and that three or more become a congress.” ~John Adams~
AlfA01 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2014, 01:08 PM   #22
Yjie91
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 24
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Hi AlfA0!

So sorry it took so long for me to reply, I have been busy with work these few days. I am using Munton's and Cooper's Liquid Malt Extracts for my brews. As I am a beginner brewer, I decided to take this road to brewing first as it is supposedly meant to be easier to brew.

Thing is, I would really like to buy some new equipment; but as of now I am short on cash, so I am bleaching, rinsing, and sanitising the fermentor a few days before the actual brewing. On the day of the brewing, I re-rinse the fermenter with bleach solution, wash the bleach out with tap water and re-sanitise it with Starsan and immediately close the lid of the fermenter. My liquid malt extract would then already be boiling and I pour the the wort into the fermenter along with ice made from distilled water and chilled boiled tap water (the boiled tap water is stored in the fridge with its lid closed to prevent contamination). Lastly, I pitch the yeast in and close the lid and leave it to ferment. Yet, it still goes sour after 3-4 days.

I really am at a loss as to what to do now.

__________________
Yjie91 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2014, 02:03 PM   #23
boydster
Round Earther
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
boydster's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: , Maine
Posts: 2,799
Liked 747 Times on 518 Posts
Likes Given: 600

Default

3-4 days is a very short time for an infection to make a noticeable impact on your beer. Have you tried just leaving the beer in the fermenter for two weeks without tasting it? Maybe you are picking up on some fermentation byproducts and interpreting it as sour.

I read your post about the batch that tasted like vinegar. That comes from acetobacter usually, and acetobacter needs oxygen to convert alcohol to acetic acid. Opening your fermenter during fermentation is only going to make the vinegar problem worse. Even if you didn't initially have an infection, every time you open the lid, you are increasing the risk that something gets in, and you are allowing oxygen in to the headspace.

I second the suggestion to do a very simple recipe with US-05 and keep the fermentation temp under 20C. Don't take any samples, don't open the lid to peek, DON'T PLAY WITH YOUR BEER! Give it 2 weeks of privacy. Then take a gravity/taste sample.

__________________

Check out these cool kits at Know How Brews & Foods!

Big Jim Walker IIPA
Allagash-ishhh White Ale
Happy Hoppy Blonde Ale

boydster is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2014, 02:19 PM   #24
Yjie91
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 24
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Hi Boydster,

My fermenter has a tap for which I can tap the beer out to taste. I do not open the fermenter lid at all. Unfortunate here in Singapore we don't have US-02, hence the next beat option is to use Wheat Beer LME's. They require a relatively shorter time to ferment as its meant to be drunk young. Also, here in Singapore there temperature never goes below 20 deg.C and I currently don't have enough cash on hand to get a chiller for fermenting. I have also heard and read from other brewers and brewing threads that sourness is unheard of when brewing beer; unless we are try to achieve Lambic beer as the final result. Technically the brew should not even sour if sanitisation has been practised properly.

This is the reason why I feel so tied up and discouraged currently.

__________________
Yjie91 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2014, 02:40 PM   #25
boydster
Round Earther
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
boydster's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: , Maine
Posts: 2,799
Liked 747 Times on 518 Posts
Likes Given: 600

Default

US-05 is a type of yeast. The LME is your sugar source. If infection is a concern and you are boiling your LME, the infection isn't coming from the extract. Pitching a yeast slurry that is already contaminated is a very real potential source of infection, though, and one of the few avenues you haven't pursued from what I gather reading the thread.

I understand wheat beers are meant to be consumed young, but that doesn't mean you should be drinking it 3 or 4 days into fermentation. You should be letting it finish, then carbonating, then consuming. Even drinking a beer that is 30 days old from the date it was brewed is still drinking it "young". You won't be disappointed with waiting a little longer to start drinking the beer.

By fermenting warm, not only are you encouraging more ester development as you mentioned, but your yeast is metabolizing sugars at a very fast pace. Sometimes, the yeast will only partially break down the sugar initially, leaving acetaldehyde behind in the beer. That chemical tastes like green apples and it would be normal to expect that on day 3 or 4 with a warm fermentation. Given a day or two after the sugars are all consumed, your yeast will finish metabolizing the acetaldehyde and other byproducts, leaving a cleaner tasting beer.

My suggestion is still to get a fresh packet of yeast and make a batch without sampling until fermentation is complete - that's going to be at least 7-10 days (allowing time for the yeast to clean up fermentation byproducts) and ideally wait 2-3 weeks before you consider taking a sample or packaging the beer.

If you can get a plastic tub big enough to set your fermenter in, you can fill the tub with water and use frozen bottles of water to help keep temps down. Not sure if there are Walmarts in Singapore, but they have cheap rope totes that are perfect.

__________________

Check out these cool kits at Know How Brews & Foods!

Big Jim Walker IIPA
Allagash-ishhh White Ale
Happy Hoppy Blonde Ale

boydster is offline
balrog Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2014, 02:57 PM   #26
Yjie91
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 24
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Hi Boydster,

Really big thanks for the quick reply!
Alright I will check out US-02! I also thought of the same thing; so for now I will not use a yeast slurry but dry yeast.

I did once make a drinkable batch; that was after 1 week of fermenting and 2 weeks of carbonation. But that was only once. Beyond that batch; none of the worts tasted like apples after 2-3 days, but more of the onset of sourness. On the 6th day, it would become really sour; more of vinegary to be exact.

I am aware that high fermenting temperatures will result in excessive ester production, and therefore I am looking into buying a chiller for it in the near future, after I get my techniques right. After all, its best not to fly before you can walk; in my honest opinion. Best to get the brewing techniques and consistent batches of drinkable beer. Singapore doesn't have Walmart, but I think you mean if the stores here in Singapore sell wide base pails to hold ice and water? I am not sure myself; please forgive me if I misunderstand you.

Once again thanks a lot!

__________________
Yjie91 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2014, 03:07 PM   #27
boydster
Round Earther
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
boydster's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: , Maine
Posts: 2,799
Liked 747 Times on 518 Posts
Likes Given: 600

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yjie91 View Post
...I think you mean if the stores here in Singapore sell wide base pails to hold ice and water? I am not sure myself; please forgive me if I misunderstand you.
That is exactly what I mean. Good luck on your next batch! I hope using a fresh packet of yeast does the trick. As long as you can keep oxygen from getting into the fermenter, I am optimistic that this will work for you.
__________________

Check out these cool kits at Know How Brews & Foods!

Big Jim Walker IIPA
Allagash-ishhh White Ale
Happy Hoppy Blonde Ale

boydster is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2014, 03:15 PM   #28
Yjie91
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 24
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Hi Boydster,

Alright thanks!! I will update this post once i start on a new batch!

__________________
Yjie91 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2014, 04:41 PM   #29
andy6026
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 707
Liked 104 Times on 79 Posts
Likes Given: 62

Default

Others are offering good advice if you're trying to track down an infection. However, I suspect you might be chasing a non-issue. The beer you let ferment 10 days and then bottle condition for 2 weeks was good (even that is a fairly fast turn-around). The beer your drinking after 3-6 days in the fermenter is not good. If the infection was in your first batch from the equipment, then it would have likely been in the second (good) batch too. If it was a water problem then that would have also turned up in the good batch.

To me the variable that changed between the good and bad batches were that you gave the good batch time. The other batches it seems you're almost drinking them before they even get into the fermenter.

__________________
andy6026 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-09-2014, 01:49 AM   #30
nealperkins
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
nealperkins's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boone, NC
Posts: 295
Liked 13 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Queequeg, you've done a fine job and service to our community - hats off to you!

Queequeg, it 'may' be that your are opening your fermenter to often and potentially introducing some problems. I see you are very concerned about sanitation (as you should be) but after you pitch the yeast (and control the temps), let it finish before you open anything up. (Just 2 cents worth)

I will say...you do have the right 'attitude' and you WILL be successful.

__________________
nealperkins is offline
Queequeg Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brewer's Best Vienna Lager or Brewer's Best Octoberfest? BonzoAPD Extract Brewing 4 08-11-2013 05:45 PM
US Brewer's Gold vs German Brewer's Gold lactardjosh Recipes/Ingredients 11 10-20-2012 03:07 PM
First time brewer, last name Brewer! Brewcrew02 Introductions 2 08-12-2012 07:07 AM
Converting from Home Brewer to Commercial Brewer FensterBos General Beer Discussion 10 03-16-2012 03:37 AM
New Brewer+Nut Brown Ale Extract Kit+Northern Brewer Brewfyre Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 12 02-24-2010 03:12 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS