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Old 09-28-2012, 04:44 PM   #31
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Yes, brewr says it is about 1.5 times more object, 2.5 to 5 gallons doubles to object. I found this out the hard way once, by taste.

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Old 09-28-2012, 08:51 PM   #32
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Why would there be any hop adjustments between a 2.5 gallon boil, compared to a full 5 gallon boil? Aren't the ingredients in the kits, NB's or others, geared to do 5 gallon batches anyway? Whether you do a partial or not, in the end you're gonna end with 5 gallons of wort to ferment, right?

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Old 09-29-2012, 12:28 PM   #33
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The amount of water used in the boil will pick up the bitterness of the hops. When you add water after the boil it dilutes it. The wort is concentrated and needs to be diluted, the hops are figured out with this in mind. I ended up with a very hoppy stout once.

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Old 09-29-2012, 02:08 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Yesfan View Post
Why would there be any hop adjustments between a 2.5 gallon boil, compared to a full 5 gallon boil? Aren't the ingredients in the kits, NB's or others, geared to do 5 gallon batches anyway? Whether you do a partial or not, in the end you're gonna end with 5 gallons of wort to ferment, right?
The theory is that the amount of bitter compounds that can be extracted from the hops and the rate at which they're extracted depends on how much "stuff" is already dissolved in the water. If it's got more sugar, it extracts bitterness less efficiently. Thus, it's not as simple as using the correct amount for 5 gallons, you may have to adjust based on the boil SG.

This is disputed, though most calculators do seem to roughly double the bitterness for a doubling of SG.
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:01 PM   #35
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That answers some of my questions, but I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around it. I get the water amount/hops argument. That makes some sense to me. What I don't get is if the typical 5 gallon extract recipe from companies like NB. The recipe instructions assume you'll be boiling 2.5 gallons of water in a 5 gallon kettle. So are the ingredients adjusted accordingly? If so, then why do a lot of folks here, NB, etc. suggest getting a bigger kettle to do full volume boils for a 5 gallon batch?

On another note, I see NB has the American Wheat as a 1 gallon recipe. This was also my first batch and still (after a month) has a bit of a bite to it. It's still very drinkable, but I wonder if I'll get a totally different tasting beer if I'm able to do a full volume boil whether it's the one gallon kit from NB or the same 5 gallon kit I brewed before. Folks here and on the NB forums have told me it would mellow out after a few weeks, but I don't think it has mellowed as much as I expected. It tastes good enough for me to try it again if that helps.

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Old 09-29-2012, 08:08 PM   #36
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That answers some of my questions, but I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around it. I get the water amount/hops argument. That makes some sense to me. What I don't get is if the typical 5 gallon extract recipe from companies like NB. The recipe instructions assume you'll be boiling 2.5 gallons of water in a 5 gallon kettle. So are the ingredients adjusted accordingly? If so, then why do a lot of folks here, NB, etc. suggest getting a bigger kettle to do full volume boils for a 5 gallon batch?

On another note, I see NB has the American Wheat as a 1 gallon recipe. This was also my first batch and still (after a month) has a bit of a bite to it. It's still very drinkable, but I wonder if I'll get a totally different tasting beer if I'm able to do a full volume boil whether it's the one gallon kit from NB or the same 5 gallon kit I brewed before. Folks here and on the NB forums have told me it would mellow out after a few weeks, but I don't think it has mellowed as much as I expected. It tastes good enough for me to try it again if that helps.
It used to be thought that wort gravity had an impact on hops utilization. It turns out that it does not. Some of the older IBU calculators haven't been updated with the newer information. John Palmer says he "got it wrong" in howtobrew.com and has been saying that wort gravity/boil size do not impact hops utilization. In a few very small IBU beers, I have noticed a bit of difference in the perception of bitterness in a full boil vs. a partial boil, and I was told (by John Palmer) that it "might be as a result of break material in the wort". But in anything over about 25 IBUs or so, any differences are negligible, and the calculators don't account for that.

A full boil just generally makes the beer better. A "cleaner" less "cooked extract" taste, along with a lighter color, all make it just a better beer.

As to why you still have some "bite" in your beer, I can't say as I'm not sure what you are tasting. It could be related to fermentation temperature, water chemistry, ingredients, carbonation level, etc, so I can't really give you any helpful advice. If you could describe the flavor, that would help.
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Old 09-29-2012, 09:10 PM   #37
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It used to be thought that wort gravity had an impact on hops utilization. It turns out that it does not. Some of the older IBU calculators haven't been updated with the newer information. John Palmer says he "got it wrong" in howtobrew.com and has been saying that wort gravity/boil size do not impact hops utilization.
It should be noted that Glenn Tinseth still uses the formulas that show reduced hop utilization with a higher gravity boil - see his website:
http://www.realbeer.com/hops/research.html
He now attributes the decreased utilization to break material, but this relates back to boil gravity. I find it worrisome that the experts disagree on this point - I'll be very glad to see the issue resolved.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:06 PM   #38
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....As to why you still have some "bite" in your beer, I can't say as I'm not sure what you are tasting. It could be related to fermentation temperature, water chemistry, ingredients, carbonation level, etc, so I can't really give you any helpful advice. If you could describe the flavor, that would help.

I know this will sound funny, but it almost seems it has a bit of a "hoppy" after-taste. With that beer I did:

2.5 gallon boil (3 gallons RO water, 2 gallons tap...tap was in the boil)
fermented 70-72 degrees (that's ambient temps, not the beer temp).
2 weeks fermentation, two weeks bottling
ingredients per NB's American Wheat recipe
5/8 cup of table sugar for bottling.

All I had to monitor temps was my thermometer stuck down in my swamp cooler. That temp averaged 70*F for two weeks, but I'm sure the beer's actual temp was higher.
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:22 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yesfan

I know this will sound funny, but it almost seems it has a bit of a "hoppy" after-taste. With that beer I did:

2.5 gallon boil (3 gallons RO water, 2 gallons tap...tap was in the boil)
fermented 70-72 degrees (that's ambient temps, not the beer temp).
2 weeks fermentation, two weeks bottling
ingredients per NB's American Wheat recipe
5/8 cup of table sugar for bottling.

All I had to monitor temps was my thermometer stuck down in my swamp cooler. That temp averaged 70*F for two weeks, but I'm sure the beer's actual temp was higher.
Yeah, probably 80F+
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:23 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
It used to be thought that wort gravity had an impact on hops utilization. It turns out that it does not. Some of the older IBU calculators haven't been updated with the newer information. John Palmer says he "got it wrong" in howtobrew.com and has been saying that wort gravity/boil size do not impact hops utilization.
Hey Yooper, was this a verbal comment either in-person or on a podcast or was this written somewhere?

I'd love to hear what he has to say about this.
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