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Old 09-30-2008, 04:11 AM   #1
iXanadu
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Default OG too High and Wrong Yeast

Hi,

This is my 5th brew and my first "DIY" recipe. I have three questions.

Back Story: Wort boiled up beautifully. Dark and thick like I wanted. Was really pumped with the color and consistency up to the point I measured OG and looked at the yeast.

1) My local provider sold me the wrong yeast. I wanted WLP004 Irish Stout but got WLP001 California Ale. Everything was boiled up before I noticed so I went ahead. How much will this affect the outcome, any ideas?

2) My OG is much higher than I expected. Based on BTP SW I was aiming at 1.058. We goofed on the Molasses and added 1.25 lb instead of .5 (too many cooks in the kitchen). According to BTP the extra molasses should put the OG at 1.063. After pouring the wort into the bucket and adding water to 5.5 gal (but before adding the yeast) my OG was 1.071. I've read similar posts here and the usual culprit is not enough stirring, but I'm not sure that is my issue. Do I go with the SW or with what I measured??????? It is what it is, but I need to know what to trust for the FG.

3) The wort tasted sweeter than expected. I don't add the coffee until after fermentation but I think it still might be sweeter than expected. Will the sweetness lessen during the fermentation process? (I know I can just wait and see and make adjustments in the next batch but wondering). Should I or can I add some dry hops at secondary if it is too sweet?

Technique:

Put grains in bag and put in pot BEFORE boil. Brought 3 gal water to boil and set aside for 15 min. Removed grain, and added water to 2.5 gal. Brought to boil, added 1st hops, lme, lactose and molasses and started 60 min timer. Boiled 50 min, added finishing hops. After 10 minutes started rapid cool. Mixed wort and cool water to 5.5 gal at 71 degrees. Stirred and took OG reading and taste tested.



005 Coffee Cream Stout
13-B Sweet Stout
Author: Pickles
Date: 9/21/08

Size: 5.5 gal
Efficiency: 40%
Attenuation: 66.3%
Calories: 195.8 kcal per 12 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.058 (1.044 - 1.060)
Terminal Gravity: 1.020 (1.012 - 1.024)
Color: 35.13 (30.0 - 40.0)
Alcohol: 5.05% (4.0% - 6.0%)
Bitterness: 28.8 (20.0 - 40.0)

Ingredients:
6 lb LME, UC Dark
1 lb Chocolate Malt
.25 lb Black Patent
.75 lb Roasted Barley
.5 lb Honey Malt
.5 lb Crystal Malt 60°L
1.0 lb Oats Flaked
1.0 lb Lactose
.5 lb Molasses
.75 oz Target Hops (10.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.5 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 10 min
1.0 ea White Labs WLP004 Irish Stout
5 oz Priming Sugar
1 qt Coffee (Strong French Pressed and cooled) Add after fermentation


Notes
Brewed 9/29.
HBUSA sold me wrong yeast = got WLP001 instead of WLP004.

Messed up on molasses, used 1.25 lb instead of .5 lb.
Temp before pitching yeast = 71 degrees
OG = 1.071 don't know why.

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.1

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Old 09-30-2008, 04:27 AM   #2
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You shouldn't allow the grains to steep at higher than 168 degrees because you'll extract bitter tannins from them.

Here are the WhiteLabs Yeast descriptions. The WLP001 will tend to make it drier than the WLP004, but with the additional sugar from the molasses I think you'll get too much alcohol heat or it will still be sweet anyway despite the high attenuation.

That's just a lot of molasses. I think that is why it tastes so sweet right now. I hope you don't end up with sulfur-like flavors.

Dry hopping won't add any bitterness, just aroma. It'll still be sweet.

I think the biggest potential for off flavors will come from having boiled your grains. I'd class this brew as "experimental" and don't expect too much from it.

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Old 09-30-2008, 04:45 AM   #3
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Thanks for the help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billtzk View Post
I think the biggest potential for off flavors will come from having boiled your grains. I'd class this brew as "experimental" and don't expect too much from it.
So exactly how should I use "special grains? The video's I googled showed starting from room temperature with grains in, and bringing to a boil - followed by a 10-15 min steep. I have Palmers "How to brew" book and thought I got that part right.
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iXanadu View Post
Thanks for the help.



So exactly how should I use "special grains? The video's I googled showed starting from room temperature with grains in, and bringing to a boil - followed by a 10-15 min steep. I have Palmers "How to brew" book and thought I got that part right.
Palmer describes it specifically in his book.

Bring 3 gallons of water to between 150° - 170°F. Steep for 30 minutes, then remove. (The online version tells you to squeeze the grain bag to drain excess liquid, but that can potentially give astringent tannin compounds - same as steeping it over 170°F and steeping it for too long).
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
I'd class this brew as "experimental"
That is the first time that I have heard someone be honest and not say "Relax blah blah blah" +1 for billtzk.

WHAT video had you boil the grains - that goes against so many things.

On a side not . . .relax, put DOWN the homebrew next time while brewing LOL

I added 1/2 cup too much Maple Syrup in a batch and it turned out OK. But that is much less then 3/4 of a pound.
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder12000 View Post
WHAT video had you boil the grains - that goes against so many things.
My first guess... the "Amber Waves" episode of Good Eats. I'm really glad I found this place after AB got me interested in brewing but before I started my first batch.
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
That is the first time that I have heard someone be honest and not say "Relax blah blah blah" +1 for billtzk.
There have been many times on this board when direct honesty has come out in postings- and I'll count myself in that. RDWHAHB does apply in many circumstances- but this instance is clearly not one.

To the OP- I have a feeling that your final outcome may be borderline coyingly sweet with that much molasses.

Ride this one out and see where you wind up- it will be a learning experience, I think. I'm most definitely not advocating you dump it, only being reasonable about a potential final outcome.
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyangler18 View Post
There have been many times on this board when direct honesty has come out in postings- and I'll count myself in that. RDWHAHB does apply in many circumstances- but this instance is clearly not one.

To the OP- I have a feeling that your final outcome may be borderline coyingly sweet with that much molasses.
Yeah, I've always been honest when I post.

This might come out sweet, but the wlp001 will attenuate as much as possible. I'm not sure of the fermentability of molasses, but much of the sweetness you're tasting now will be gone when it's finished.

Lactose is unfermentable, and honey malt is very sweet, so that combined with the molasses is probably the issue.
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Old 09-30-2008, 12:43 PM   #9
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I'm going to be a RDWHAHB.

The bitter you may be extracting from the tannins in that BIG of an alcohol beer may blend in the back as an increase in "bitter" period. The higher OG than expected would have tossed your IBU/SG ratio all out of whack, making the beer way sweeter/maltier than designed. Tannin bitterness and hop bitterness may be tasted as one in the same and may help with the perceived bitterness of this batch.

The WLP001 should have a better attenuation than the WLP004, all other things being equal. That will help prevent the finished product from being too sweet. My only concern would be if there was enough yeast pitched to get a healthy fermentation going. Did you use a starter?

I'd let it ride and see what turns up. It's a great learning experience if nothing else.

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Old 10-01-2008, 01:21 AM   #10
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Thanks everyone for the help.

I'm going to wait it out, I have the equipment to keep on brewing.

How To Make Beer - Part One | Homebrewing Video - Beer Making & Brewing Videos is the video I referred to. To the authors credit, I didn't even follow his advice well. I view this video several weeks ago *before* I started brewing. I went from memory, and even then did it poorly. This is probably why I missed the section in Palmers book - "skimmed - I already know that" kind of thing. Insult to injury I actually let the water hit a boil and worse *pressed* the grains some in a strainer. Plenty of bitter tannins to offset the sweet if I'm lucky. Un-drinkable if I'm not. Either way a good lesson. The $40 in supplies I don't mind. Waiting a couple months to taste the result, will be a killer.

Again, thanks all. Maybe someone will learn a lesson from my mistake.

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