Oatmeal

So I read that since I'm using the old fashioned oats I'll need to cook all 1.5 lbs of them.

Do I drain them?

Can they be cooked the day before?

Do you mix them in with your other grains upon filling the mash tun? Layer them?

Does the cooking water need to be treated?

Here's what How To Brew (12.2) says:

"Oats are available whole, steel-cut (i.e. grits), rolled, and flaked. Rolled and flaked oats have had their starches gelatinized (made soluble) by heat and pressure, and are most readily available as "Instant Oatmeal" in the grocery store. Whole oats and "Old Fashioned Rolled Oats" have not had the degree of gelatinization that Instant have had and must be cooked before adding to the mash. "Quick" oatmeal has had a degree of gelatinization but does benefit from being cooked before adding to the mash. Cook according to the directions on the box (but add more water) to ensure that the starches will be fully utilized."

Could the oatmeal be placed in a bowl to soak instead of cooking it?

On another forum I was told that I'd certainly need to cook the oatmeal prior to mashing.

I'm uncertain what makes the difference between cooking them in a pot (I actually was considering a very large bowl with boiling water, covering it and allowing it to just sit) or "cooking" them with the mash water.

If the oats are rolled or flaked, just mash them with the other grains. If they are whole steel cut oats, you should probably pre-soak them to soften them before mashing. I wouldn't heat them though. Steel cut are best for eating (yum), but the other more modified kinds are far easier to use for brewing.

Whole grain rolled oats it states, and with a 5 min cook time.

If these were the type that needed to be cooked and I just tossed them in the mash what would be the effect? I'd guess a lack of consumable sugars, but anything else?

rodwha said:

Whole grain rolled oats it states, and with a 5 min cook time.

If these were the type that needed to be cooked and I just tossed them in the mash what would be the effect? I'd guess a lack of consumable sugars, but anything else?

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If they are 'quick' oats, just throw them in with the base grains and mash them. If they are regular old fashioned oats, they should be cooked to get the most out of them.

The easy way is to follow the package directions, and make oatmeal. Then throw them in the mash when you mash in. You could do a cereal mash, but it's certainly not necessary for only a 1.5 pound of oats added.

If they are rolled oats, they can go straight in the mash. The rolling process exposes the oats to sufficient heat to geletanize them, which is what you need.

Check the ingredients on the quick oats. Make sure there is no added salt. Depending on how much oats are used, might want to consider tossing in some rice hulls to keep grain bed loose.

I wrote the same in your Monster Mill thread, that got diverted to oats.

I know Palmer wrote that and he's a reputable source... mostly. He also wrote that at least 9 years ago, probably longer. Most book revisions usually lack thoroughness and critical editing on existing matter. The consensus on the innuhnet nowadays seems to be that rolled, flaked, quick, and instant oats are all pre-gelatinized by the hot rolling process and can be added to the mash directly (I'd run them through the mill though). Only whole and steel cut oats need to be pre-cooked.

When specifically re-reading that section on adjuncts, Palmer doesn't mention cooking wheat, barley or any of the other flaked adjunct. So why would oats be an exception, except that they come in 6 "different forms," unlike the others. Look at flaked wheat, that looks pretty much the same as rolled or old fashioned oats, don't they?

I eat a lot of oats, raw, cooked with milk, and sometimes in cookies or bread. When cooking "old-fashioned" oats they cook and dissolve rather quickly, like within 5-10 minutes. The steel cut oats take much longer and stay a lot chewier even after 30 minutes of simmering.

Useful hint:
Oats do give a bit more flavor when toasting them in the oven a bit before adding to the mash. So you may want to consider doing that, also depending on beer style.

I have to admit I'm a bit perplexed as I get different answers from different people. So I Googled the difference and cannot really seem to understand what the real difference is between old fashioned rolled oats and quick oats (not to be confused with instant).

From everything I read it seems it's merely a matter of the thickness they were rolled to. One cooks in 5 mins and the other may take as much as 15 mins.

Though the can states "old fashioned rolled oats" it gives a 5 min cook time and microwave instructions, which leads me to believe these are more likely quick oats. As there's not much difference I wonder if that's how they can state "old fashioned oats." Given the 5 min cook time I intend to treat them as quick oats and not precook them unless someone shows me that I indeed need to.

I'm still lost on why the hot mash temp wouldn't cook any oatmeal in an hour, why they'd need to be precooked. But then portions of the physics of the mash are still a bit of a mystery to me... I understand just enough to be comfortable doing it until I decide to use oddball ingredients.

I'm guessing that if I toss these straight into the mash and they did indeed require cooking first my OG reading will be lower? How else would I know?

rodwha said:

I have to admit I'm a bit perplexed as I get different answers from different people. So I Googled the difference and cannot really seem to understand what the real difference is between old fashioned rolled oats and quick oats (not to be confused with instant).

From everything I read it seems it's merely a matter of the thickness they were rolled to. One cooks in 5 mins and the other may take as much as 15 mins.

Though the can states "old fashioned rolled oats" it gives a 5 min cook time and microwave instructions, which leads me to believe these are more likely quick oats. As there's not much difference I wonder if that's how they can state "old fashioned oats." Given the 5 min cook time I intend to treat them as quick oats and not precook them unless someone shows me that I indeed need to.

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That's the point I tried to make earlier.

Aside from true differences in manufacturing, there's also a hodgepodge of marketing names out there for pretty much the same product, without clear distinctions what sets them apart from each other. Take a look at flaked wheat, flaked barley, and flaked oats, and note the differences. Then compare that with what the grain component in Muesli looks like, and how they are described on the package [rolled].

The only reasoning I see is that quick oats may have gone through more heat treatment (steaming and hot rolling) and are thus more "pre-cooked" than say old fashioned. Then instant oats have had even more processing done and don't need to be cooked anymore, just stirred in water or milk. Instant oats are much smaller "flakes" and have a much finer texture.

For our purposes the question remains, are old fashioned oats (flakes) enough gelatinized to be added to the mash directly or would extra cooking (boiling) be advantageous?

rodwha said:

I'm still lost on why the hot mash temp wouldn't cook any oatmeal in an hour, why they'd need to be precooked. But then portions of the physics of the mash are still a bit of a mystery to me... I understand just enough to be comfortable doing it until I decide to use oddball ingredients.

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Palmer is quite clear what gelatinizing starches is and why it's required. In short you got to break up the matrix the starches are locked into, so the water and enzymes can get to them for conversion.

Your OG will be slightly lower if they needed to be cooked, but I don't think your 5 minute oats need to be cooked first. I think steel cut oats would need to be. I've bought flaked oats from the LHBS and they specifically state not to mill them in their mill. I'd do in mine though because I don't see the big deal. However, before I had a mill, I used flaked oats from the LHBS a few times without issues. I also believe their flaked oats look exactly like my quick oats (oats from Quaker that take 5 minutes on the stovetop). In fact, I was told that I could skip buying them from the LHBS at their prices and buy them from the market. So I'm going with quick oats, 5 minute oats from Quaker are likely the very same thing and ready to be used.

Toasting them sounds like a super good idea though.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, you will often receive various answers and in this case there isn't one right answer I don't think. I feel like if you mash them or cook them for 5 minutes, you're good. Steal cut oats are different and I wouldn't use them anyway. I'd save those for my belly.

IslandLizard said:

Useful hint:
Oats do give a bit more flavor when toasting them in the oven a bit before adding to the mash. So you may want to consider doing that, also depending on beer style.

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Was actually thinking about that, glad you posted that

Reading about it many people stated that it should be kept in a paper sack for 2 weeks. I'll be brewing this on Thu.

I went ahead and milled it with the flaked oats on my setting of 0.029".

It is something I want to try doing, but I'd prefer to try this with a smaller test batch as many stated their beer was terrible without the rest period, though a few did say they do it the day of to a few days prior.

I do want to make an oatmeal pale one day soon...

(StPug sees a dead horse and decides to beat it)

Edited for brevity:

What is the difference between Quaker® Old Fashioned Oatmeal, Quick Quaker®, Quaker Steel Cut Oats and Instant Quaker® Oatmeal?

Quaker® Old Fashioned Oats are whole oats that are rolled to flatten them.

Quick Quaker® Oats are made the same way but are simply cut into slightly smaller pieces so they cook faster.

Instant Quaker® Oats use the exact same oats, only they are rolled a little bit thinner and cut finer so that they cook very quickly.

It’s the different size and shape of the oats that affects the cooking time and texture.

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Source: https://cu.pepsico.com/quaker

IslandLizard said:

When specifically re-reading that section on adjuncts, Palmer doesn't mention cooking wheat, barley or any of the other flaked adjunct. So why would oats be an exception, except that they come in 6 "different forms," unlike the others. Look at flaked wheat, that looks pretty much the same as rolled or old fashioned oats, don't they?

I eat a lot of oats, raw, cooked with milk, and sometimes in cookies or bread. When cooking "old-fashioned" oats they cook and dissolve rather quickly, like within 5-10 minutes. The steel cut oats take much longer and stay a lot chewier even after 30 minutes of simmering.

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I'm going to have to agree with IslandLizard here. I know that people say Old Fashioned Oats "must" be cooked prior to mashing, but I just don't see it. I use Old Fashioned Oats in many brews and my OG is always right where I expect it to be without cooking them stovetop first. I honestly haven't tried the same recipe with cooking and without cooking, so I guess it's possible you might get a couple of extra points if you did cook it first.

Anyhow, with the baking you don't need to let it rest for 2 weeks if you only do a light toast. I've done a light toast of both oats and barley while I was prepping other stuff on the day of the brew they were to be used. If you make your own brown malt or crystal 60, that's a little different!

Cheers!

I went ahead and toasted ~1/2 of what I had (1.75 lbs of oats & 1 lb flaked barley I milled) on 300* for ~22 mins as I was following stpugs advice until on the third round of 10 mins (for a total of 30 mins) I read that he thought it ill-advised since they will milled.

It had begun to smell of cookies after about 7 mins.

Yeah, I've never toasted after the grain was milled, that could complicate things I suppose. Hope it turns out well!

Me too!

Quick oats are recommended because they are smaller (i.e.: more surface area) and supposedly easier to convert than regular rolled oats. Same applies to fine vs coarse milled malted grain. I use the quick 1 minute oats because its easy and i'm assured of good conversion.