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Old 12-03-2009, 01:48 AM   #1
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Default Mr Malty wants more yeast than manufacturer?

Why does Mr Malty, in general, call for more vials and more wort than White Labs or Wyeast?

For a 1.06 OG Ale, Mr Malty calls for 208B cells, 2 vials and 1L of starter.


From their sites:

Quote:
Each vial of White Labs liquid yeast is designed to be used directly in 5 gallons, hence the term "pitchable yeast." Each vial is equivalent in cell count to a pint starter, or 75-150 billion cells.
Quote:
White Labs recommends on their label to make a starter "if the gravity is over 1.070, if the yeast is past its "best before" date, or if a faster start is desired........To brew a high gravity beer: 2 pints


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The Propagator™ package contains a minimum of 25 billion cells in a yeast slurry
After its pitched, how many cells does the Propagator end up with?
Quote:
The Propagator™ is designed, when propagated in a 1-2 liter “starter” culture, to inoculate 5 gallons of standard strength ale wort (1.034-1.060 SG) with professional pitching rates.
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:50 AM   #2
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Because Mr Malty isnt trying to convince you that thier yeast is awesome. Bottom line, trust Mr Malty, not the Mfg.

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Old 12-03-2009, 04:59 AM   #3
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Mr Malty has two links on his website that discuss proper pitching rates and making starters.

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.htm

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Old 12-03-2009, 05:03 AM   #4
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To be clear, Mr. Malty's calculator recommends 208 billion cells (for a 5 gallon batch of 1.060 wort), which can be had by:

Two fresh vials/packs of liquid yeast

OR

One fresh vial/pack of liquid yeast stepped up to a 2.17 liter starter.

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Old 12-03-2009, 05:31 AM   #5
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You should trust Mr. Malty...Jamil is a "brewing god" you know.

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Old 12-03-2009, 12:59 PM   #6
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I pitched 1 vial of WLP Cali Ale yeast into 5.5 gallons of wort @ 1.055 OG. I wanted to test the claim that manufacturers make about being able to pitch directly. I must say the pale ale fermented nice and clean. Many others who have tried the beer also say that it tastes clean.

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Old 12-03-2009, 01:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schweaty View Post
I pitched 1 vial of WLP Cali Ale yeast into 5.5 gallons of wort @ 1.055 OG. I wanted to test the claim that manufacturers make about being able to pitch directly. I must say the pale ale fermented nice and clean. Many others who have tried the beer also say that it tastes clean.
The issue so much isn't that in most cases, the pitchable yeast "won't work" it's just that by making a starter to the larger amount mentioned in mr malty, it will simply work "better."

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.
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Old 12-03-2009, 01:16 PM   #8
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In every aspect of brewing there's "good enough" and better and better and better and better... In some cases there's a best practice, however there is little or no agreement as to what that is.

In this case, the difference between the manufacturer and Mr. Malty is a single budding cycle for the yeast.

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Old 12-03-2009, 01:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNBrews View Post
You should trust Mr. Malty...Jamil is a "brewing god" you know.
That and the fact that his calculations are based on the industry standard pitching rates (0.75 million cells per mL per degree plato) and the starter sizes are based on extensive work that he has done (making the starters and counting the cells).
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Old 12-03-2009, 02:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
The issue so much isn't that in most cases, the pitchable yeast "won't work" it's just that by making a starter to the larger amount mentioned in mr malty, it will simply work "better."

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.
Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.
This is all very true. Matter of fact I make a starter for EVERY beer I brew, aside from this test I did. All I was saying is that it is in MY experience using the vial proved to be very effective for a lower gravity beer. I would have never tried anything like this on a higher gravity beer that was above 1.060. Just like many of the people around here I was testing claims and theories made by manufacturers and brewers alike.
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