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Old 04-02-2008, 01:48 PM   #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 431brew
I am not certain that this is the right place for this post...it is MRB related and recipe related. Anyway, I am one remaining MRB recipe away from going to 5 gal batches and getting away from the MRB kits.

The very first beer I made was the MRB West Coast Pale Ale and, after seeing all the neg comments about it and MRB, I wasn't expecting much. However, I was very patient with it and by the time I drank the last one, I knew I wanted to make a 5 gal version of it (without buying two recipes from MRB!). It was not bitter, didn't leave an aftertaste, and the low ABV made it enjoyable for SWMBO. To me, it was just a very smooth, clean tasting beer.

How would I go about breaking down MRB's WCPA to determine what is needed to make my own 5 gal. version? I found this recipe http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=594726#post594726 and at first thought it was close until I compared the profiles.

Is this a trial and error thing, or is there a way to actually figure it out the first time?

Thanks!
Well first the recipe you found is for a Pilsner, Not an ale so it won't be similiar to what you're looking for.

Well the first challenge in recreating it in 5 gallon batches is that MR Beer uses Pre Hopped liquid malt extract, so figuring out exactly what they use is going to be difficult..

Obviously the easiest way would be to order 2 WCPA kits and make a double batch...but that would be more expensive and not as much fun to figure out

First thing is to look at the "numbers" for the wcpa.....it's on the website...

West Coast Pale Ale

Flavor: Balanced
Alc/Vol: 2.3%
SRM (Color): 3
IBU (Bitterness): 10


Alc/Vol -- Strength given in percent of alcohol by volume.

SRM -- Color based on Standard Reference Method, where as:
(fruits may give some additional color.)
- Golden Beers are between 0 - 6
- Amber Beers are between 7 - 12
- Dark Beers are 13 and over

IBU -- Shown in International Bittering Units, where:
- No bitterness 0 - 9
- Modest bitterness 10 - 19
- Noticeable bitterness 20 and over


Unfortunately they don't give OG and FG so it makes it more challenging....BUT we can still break down the recipe somewhat by what we do know....We have the Color, we have the bitterness and we have the ABV...so it is possible to break it down in brewing software, even a free one like beercalculus....

First there are Pre-hopped extracts made for 5 gallon batches that can be used and will be close in taste...thugh not perfect... Cooper's and John Bull have pre hopped extracts in 3.3 pound cans....but these are ranked in terms of color...like Light, Amber, etc....I'm assuming WCPA would use a light pre hopped extract....

Even better would be a recipe that is unhopped and you add the right hops...That's my goal for you...to get you to a standard beer recipe rather than a prehopped one, that way you can control it and fiddle with it, and even when you're ready you can convert it to all grain!

It's hard to figure out what bjcp style the beer is...Is it a california common, and hybrid americanized IPA, or Pale Ale? The Color is so light and the bitterness (the IBU's) is so light..It's hard to match it to a bjcp style.


The first step would be to compare it to a commercial example, then go from there...Does it taste like any of these?

Redhook Blonde, Catamount Gold, Widmer Blonde Ale, Coast Range California Blonde Ale, Fuller's Summer Ale, Hollywood Blonde, Pete's Wicked Summer Brew, Deschutes Cascade Golden ,Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Stone Pale Ale, Great Lakes Burning River Pale Ale, Full Sail Pale Ale, Three Floyds X-Tra Pale Ale, Anderson Valley Poleeko Gold Pale Ale, Left Hand Brewing Jackman's Pale Ale, Pyramid Pale Ale, Deschutes Mirror Pond,Mendocino Red Tail Ale, North Coast Red Seal Ale, St. Rogue Red Ale, Avery Redpoint Ale, Anderson Valley Boont Amber Ale, Bell's Amber, Hoptown Paint the Town Red, McNeill's Firehouse Amber Ale,Genesee Cream Ale, Little Kings Cream Ale (Hudepohl), Sleeman Cream Ale, Liebotschaner Cream Ale (Lion Brewery), Dave's Original Cream Ale (Molson), New Glarus Spotted Cow Farmhouse Ale, Wisconsin Brewing Whitetail Cream Ale, Goose Island Summertime, Crooked River Kölsch, Harpoon Summer Beer, Capitol City Capitol Kölsch...

These are different commercial examples of Cream ales, Pale Ales, Kolsches, amber ales and hybrids...

If you can get me to a commercial beer that reminds you of it, I can get you to a 5 gallon recipe.... even a direct clone of one...

More likely we'll find 2 or three and cobble them together and plug the numbers in, and hit it pretty close...

I love beer detective work!!!!
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:40 PM   #512
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WOW. Way to take the wheel on this one Revvy!
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Old 04-02-2008, 08:27 PM   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shafferpilot
WOW. Way to take the wheel on this one Revvy!
LOL....

I guess I got a little carried away :blush:

I'm in the process of doing a little beer detective work on my own (actually with my GF) She's researching a book on ancient sumerian/egyptian goddess religions and how they spread to Ireland (possibly). Anyway she came across the "recipe" for the first beer ever written about (in the tale of Gilgamesh) which was brewed in Ancient Sumeria.... Several people including Anchor and Dogfishead have brewed what they believe the recipe could be...But my GF thinks they're misreading some of the ingredients on the tablets.....

So I've been doing kinda the same sort of process I mentioned about 431's WCPA and trying to come up with a recipe.....To start I'm going to brew a clone of the Anchor version (which hasn't been made since 1989 or 1990 I guess)...And see how that tastes....

The kicker is that there's no way in heck that I'm going to brew a 5 gallon batch of something that could potentially taste like crap...or kill me

So guess where I'm going to brew my test batches in???



So I will be doing a few small batch AG brews in the ole brown keg, after all!

(only not the kind of beer I planned on doing....)
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Last edited by Revvy; 04-02-2008 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:46 PM   #514
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Default pre-hopped malt extract

What malt extracts are pre hopped?
thanks

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Old 04-02-2008, 10:20 PM   #515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timgman
What malt extracts are pre hopped?
thanks

The ones I know are Coopers, John Bull, Brewmaster's and Munton's are the ones I know of.... Info can be found here. http://www.thebeeressentials.com/beer/beer-hopped-malt-extract-kits-index.shtml

But why use them when you can actaully hop your own? It's cheaper and you can control the types and the level of bitterness. Plus with pr-hopped you're not going to get the hopflavor and aroma that you would get by adding a flavor and aroma addition of hops.
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Old 04-03-2008, 12:43 AM   #516
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Default alcohol content

Somewhere I read how much alcohol content different ingredients add to a Mr. Beer mix, i.e. HME-2.3%, UME-2.3%, booster-???%, 1 cup honey-???%, can of fruit-???%, etc. I can't find this information anymore. Does anyone else have this and can you share it please?

Thanks!

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Old 04-03-2008, 03:59 AM   #517
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Gee, Revvy... wasn't looking for this kind of response! Thanks for all of the effort!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy
Obviously the easiest way would be to order 2 WCPA kits and make a double batch...but that would be more expensive and not as much fun to figure out
Yep, the MRB kits are expensive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy
I'm assuming WCPA would use a light pre hopped extract....
Yes, all of the basic MRB recipes are pre hopped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy
Even better would be a recipe that is unhopped and you add the right hops...That's my goal for you...to get you to a standard beer recipe rather than a prehopped one, that way you can control it and fiddle with it, and even when you're ready you can convert it to all grain!
That is my goal for me, too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy
The first step would be to compare it to a commercial example, then go from there...Does it taste like any of these?
I will have to visit the World Market store about an hour from here, and go on a shopping/drinking spree. None of the flavors that you provided can be bought in this small town. I have never tried any of those!

Thanks for the response and the investigative work. I will try to get some of these sampled over the weekend.
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Drinking:
1. American Premium Lager (on tap)
2. Porter



Keg Conditioning:
Blonde (AHB)


Fermenter #1:
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Fermenter #2:
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:04 AM   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmc
Somewhere I read how much alcohol content different ingredients add to a Mr. Beer mix, i.e. HME-2.3%, UME-2.3%, booster-???%, 1 cup honey-???%, can of fruit-???%, etc. I can't find this information anymore. Does anyone else have this and can you share it please?

Thanks!
mmc...These are listed in the book that came with the MRB kit...near the back, I think. I think my book is in a box in my bedroom closet. I will try to dig it out tomorrow and list them for you if you do not have the book. I would do it now, but SWMBO is asleep and will get pissed if I wake her up.
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_____________________________________________

Drinking:
1. American Premium Lager (on tap)
2. Porter



Keg Conditioning:
Blonde (AHB)


Fermenter #1:
none

Fermenter #2:
none

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Old 04-03-2008, 11:43 AM   #519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 431brew
mmc...These are listed in the book that came with the MRB kit...near the back, I think. I think my book is in a box in my bedroom closet. I will try to dig it out tomorrow and list them for you if you do not have the book. I would do it now, but SWMBO is asleep and will get pissed if I wake her up.
I'm can't find my book (don't remember getting one actually) so I'd appreciate it if you could find the information for me. I thought I saw it on-line somewhere. Thanks for your help!
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:55 AM   #520
431brew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmc
Somewhere I read how much alcohol content different ingredients add to a Mr. Beer mix, i.e. HME-2.3%, UME-2.3%, booster-???%, 1 cup honey-???%, can of fruit-???%, etc. I can't find this information anymore. Does anyone else have this and can you share it please?

Thanks!
mmc.... out of the book; not sure how accurate:
1.21 lb can MRB LME (hopped or unhopped) = 2.3% abv
2 cups booster= 1.4% abv
1.5 cups white or brown cane sugar= 1.5% abv
1 cup honey or molasses= 0.9% abv
1 cup real maple syrup= 0.7% abv
15 ounce can fruit in syrup= 1.0% abv
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_____________________________________________

Drinking:
1. American Premium Lager (on tap)
2. Porter



Keg Conditioning:
Blonde (AHB)


Fermenter #1:
none

Fermenter #2:
none

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