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Old 11-06-2012, 09:43 PM   #4171
defalcos
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Originally Posted by cooltouch View Post
Yep, the one in the above link's photo is the same as mine. It's a big'un.

Incidentally, the "mix" that came with my Mr. Beer kit is Armstrong Premium Pilsner Blonde, a 1.7 kg (3.75 lb) can. It's all bulged out at the top and bottom so I'm afraid to even open it.
Duh! I didn't even notice that you're a local. If you want to, come by the shop and bring your garage sale treasure with you. We'll help you out with it. BTW That bulging can will not harm you, but I seriously doubt it will produce anything remotely resembling a drinkable beer. Most canned extract will begin to bulge and darken after about two years or so. It's called the "browning effect" and it will deepen color and rob your extract of flavor and aroma. Still, the fact that it hasn't exploded after all this time is pretty remarkable!

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Old 11-06-2012, 10:06 PM   #4172
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BTW That bulging can will not harm you, but I seriously doubt it will produce anything remotely resembling a drinkable beer.
This I would disagree with 100%.
Even a simple search on bulging cans returns articles and warnings that are 90% about botulism. A can here or there may sneak by and you can get lucky, but that's a serious risk and I would never advise anybody to take that risk.
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:22 PM   #4173
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This I would disagree with 100%.
Even a simple search on bulging cans returns articles and warnings that are 90% about botulism. A can here or there may sneak by and you can get lucky, but that's a serious risk and I would never advise anybody to take that risk.
Botulism cannot grow in hopped malt extract. pH is way too low. I have personally brewed more than a few batches with bulging cans. They don't necessarily result in nasty beer (unless the extract is REALLY old, as in this particular instance), but rarely is the final product worth the time and effort. It's the old adage, "Garbage in, Garbage out!" That's my personal experience, anyway.

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Old 11-06-2012, 10:27 PM   #4174
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Botulism cannot grow in hopped malt extract. pH is way too low.
Can you provide a citation on that?
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:22 AM   #4175
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Hey Scott,

Since you're at DeFalco's, I reckon I'll be seeing you at your store in the not-too-distant future. Thanks for the info, even though your first post reads a bit like partial differential equations at the moment. Gotta get to know the procedures and the jargon and all.

As for my Mr. Beer kit, I took a look at the docs that came with it, and the instructions have a 1994 copyright date. And I bought the kit probably 15 or 16 years ago, so 1994 sounds about right to me. It's in very good unused condition, is complete with the bloated mix can, that airlock thingie and six 2-liter plastic bottles with caps. Oh, and a spigot.

Since it seems that y'all have an interest in the vintage Mr. Beer kits, I took some pics of mine. It still has the original box, so the pics are of the box. There are pics of the kit on the box, so I don't need to take pics of the kit itself. Here are pics of the front, rear, the two sides, and then the top, and finally a shot of that almost exploding can of Armstrong mix:








BTW, hey -- guys! I have no intention of using this Armstrong mix! Okay? I've mentioned its condition because it just looks like contained fury, ya know? And I couldn't resist showing a pic to you guys. But I plan to leave it just as it sits. I suspect it's expanded as far as it's gonna go.

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Old 11-07-2012, 07:13 AM   #4176
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Hahah, good stuff. Loving the vintage Mr. Beer memorabilia.

Sort of similar thing. Last year a mate chucked me his old Cooper's Fermentation Vessel, a pack of solidified and probably slightly rehydrated DME, and a can of Brewiser pilsener that was probably even a bit more bloated, and looking ready to pop, than the can you're showing. I think it had been sitting around in his garage for about 8 years enduring winter lows of down to minus 5 or so degrees Centigrade and summer highs of up to 38 or so deg C.

I decided to make a brew using it so warmed and then opened the 1.7 Kg can to pour into the MrB fermenter. That pilsener extract looked like it was a stout extract!!!!!!!!!! Pure black!!!!!!!!! Smelled rubbish too. Kind of earthy, dusty, musty. Anyway, left it in the LBK for a few months. Can't remember now what the OG was but it only got down to 1.028 or thereabouts and when I tasted the hydro sample it was hideous Contemplated possibly keeping it for cooking but reckoned it was way past redemption and would probably just ruin any culinary activity it was used in, so I just chucked it. I have absolutely no regrets about dumping that batch

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:26 PM   #4177
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Hey Scott,

BTW, hey -- guys! I have no intention of using this Armstrong mix! Okay? I've mentioned its condition because it just looks like contained fury, ya know? And I couldn't resist showing a pic to you guys. But I plan to leave it just as it sits. I suspect it's expanded as far as it's gonna go.
Yep! Save it for the Smithsonian! If I were "Scottie" from Star Trek, I'd be saying "I think she's about to blow, Captain!" :-)
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:38 PM   #4178
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Hahah, good stuff. Loving the vintage Mr. Beer memorabilia.

Sort of similar thing. Last year a mate chucked me his old Cooper's Fermentation Vessel, a pack of solidified and probably slightly rehydrated DME, and a can of Brewiser pilsener that was probably even a bit more bloated, and looking ready to pop, than the can you're showing. I think it had been sitting around in his garage for about 8 years enduring winter lows of down to minus 5 or so degrees Centigrade and summer highs of up to 38 or so deg C.

I decided to make a brew using it so warmed and then opened the 1.7 Kg can to pour into the MrB fermenter. That pilsener extract looked like it was a stout extract!!!!!!!!!! Pure black!!!!!!!!! Smelled rubbish too. Kind of earthy, dusty, musty. Anyway, left it in the LBK for a few months. Can't remember now what the OG was but it only got down to 1.028 or thereabouts and when I tasted the hydro sample it was hideous Contemplated possibly keeping it for cooking but reckoned it was way past redemption and would probably just ruin any culinary activity it was used in, so I just chucked it. I have absolutely no regrets about dumping that batch
Yep, sounds like a classic, if extreme, example of old malt extract brewing. If the can was only 2 - 3 years old and slightly bloated, it would have been darker than when fresh, but not stout color. It would have been drinkable, but just. About the only thing you can do with these less extreme bulging cans is steep some roasted grains and add some bittering hops to produce a stout, which might help cover up the off-flavor. BTW Dried malt extract seems to hold up MUCH better over time, but it can turn into a bit of a brick :-)

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:46 PM   #4179
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Can you provide a citation on that?
From Wikipedia: "Proper refrigeration at temperatures below 3°C (38°F) retards the growth of Clostridium botulinum. The organism is also susceptible to high salt, high oxygen, and low pH levels. The toxin itself is rapidly destroyed by heat, such as in thorough cooking.[34] On the other hand, the spores that produce the toxin are heat-tolerant and will survive boiling water for an extended period of time.[35] Fortunately, ingestion of the spores is safe, except in infants, as the highly oxygenated and highly acidic environment of an adult human digestive system prevents the spores from growing and producing the botulinum toxin."

Considering that hopped malt extract will result in a pH in the upper 4's to low 5's when diluted to normal beer densities, consider how low the pH is 80 - 85% solids form. No botulism. But, that doesn't mean it won't like crap. It depends upon how long and under what conditions the can has been stored as to how extreme the funk is. I see another good reason to bring the syrup to a boil, however. I've tasted too many NASTY no-boil, non-pasteurized beers to go down that road.

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Old 11-07-2012, 10:39 PM   #4180
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Interesting, but i'm not risking my health on Wikipedia information

Not trying to be a PITA here, really. I've also read that things with a water activity level of less than 0.93 are not susceptible as the spores can't grow in that environment. Extract is down near 0.60 based on what I have read.

I spent a LOT of time reading on this last night and it seems that the spores can SURVIVE in extract but not create toxins. The spores *can* survive heat (depending on the length of the boil I surmise) but those spores *shouldn't* hurt you.

I guess this is just an area where I'm not willing to risk it - but that is my choice and I just don't feel comfortable telling anybody else to risk it. But, maybe that's just me....maybe it really is just simple science that I don't fully understand and therefore don't want to take what I perceive as a risk.

In any case, I think we've covered this topic now. Back to real beer stuff!

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