New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Mash Efficiency vs Brewhouse Efficiency




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-28-2011, 07:20 PM   #11
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,238
Liked 71 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMitch View Post
Ahh, well maybe I was using an erroneous efficiency calculator then. It basically seemed like as the efficiency went up, the gravity went down, as the wort was basically getting "watered down".

For example...at 5gal of collected runnings, I was at 53%, but if I sparged an additional 4galls, it would bring me up to 85% or so. But it seems to me like the more one sparges, the more diluted the wort will be. Maybe that is where I am mistaken.
Yes, the more you sparge, the more diluted the wort is, but you also have more of it. Then you boil it down to some smaller final volume. That final volume you are shooting for is the same regardless of whether you sparged a little or a lot.

When you boil it down, you are concentrating the sugars. Even though you started off with more wort that was more diluted, you end up with the same amount of wort that is more concentrated.

Did that make sense?


__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2011, 07:23 PM   #12
RMitch
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 353
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
Yes, the more you sparge, the more diluted the wort is, but you also have more of it. Then you boil it down to some smaller final volume. That final volume you are shooting for is the same regardless of whether you sparged a little or a lot.

When you boil it down, you are concentrating the sugars. Even though you started off with more wort that was more diluted, you end up with the same amount of wort that is more concentrated.

Did that make sense?
Ahh I see now. Because the thinner the wort (in terms of more water = thinner) the more water that will boil off. Interesting.


__________________
RMitch is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2011, 07:29 PM   #13
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,238
Liked 71 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motobrewer View Post
i'm in the same situation. i have great mash efficiency but what i end up with in the fermentor is much lower. i always end up topping off with water, and i think i've been leaving too much being in the kettle.
Yeah, the amount you leave behind in the kettle can really screw you if it's a lot.

Say you made 5 gallons (5 in the kettle at the end of the boil) but only manage to get 4.5 into the fermenter. You just lost 10% of your wort, which is significant.

If you then add that 10% back as water, you just diluted everything quite a bit.

I went through a process of taking measurements on all of my gear when I started brewing all grain. I know how much dead-space there is in my kettle, as well as how much wort my hops will absorb. So, when I make a batch of beer, I make a batch that is larger that 5 gallons to compensate for these things.

The end result is that I often brew 5.25 to 5.50 gallons, and end up with 5 in the fermenter.

If I didn't compensate, I would have to just deal with 4.50 to 4.75 in the fermenter.
__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2011, 07:32 PM   #14
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thiensville, Wisconsin
Posts: 6,558
Liked 197 Times on 176 Posts
Likes Given: 362

Default

yeah, this was especially evident yesterday when i brewed a ipa using 10oz of semi-wet hops in the kettle. probably soaked up a gallon of wort

i think the root of my problems is i only have a 7g kettle, and wisconsin winters are pretty dry so i boil off a ton.

__________________
motobrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2011, 07:37 PM   #15
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,238
Liked 71 Times on 63 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motobrewer View Post
i think the root of my problems is i only have a 7g kettle, and wisconsin winters are pretty dry so i boil off a ton.
If your volume in the fermenter is low due to excessive boil off, then adding water is perfectly fine to do. Your wort will have less volume and a higher gravity than it should have had, so water will bring it back into alignment.

If your volume in the fermenter is low due to dead space in the kettle or hop absorption, then adding water will dilute it.
__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-28-2011, 08:08 PM   #16
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thiensville, Wisconsin
Posts: 6,558
Liked 197 Times on 176 Posts
Likes Given: 362

Default

i don't think the boil-off is too excessive, but i can't sparge enough because i can only fit 6.5gal in the kettle.

__________________
motobrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2011, 03:12 PM   #17
Scooby_Brew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 993
Liked 26 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

I'm going to refresh this subject.

So you can easily increase the "brewhouse efficiency" by simply starting with more pre-boil volume and then boil longer / or more vigorously to get your target after-boil volume? You will end up with more sugars after-boil and therefore higher "brewhouse efficiency".

In other words, two brewers could have the same "mash efficiency", but if one of them starts with higher pre-boil volume, but ends with the same after-boil, his "brewhouse efficiency" is going to be much higher?
__________________
"My Brew Day" on YouTube.
RDWHAHB
Scooby_Brew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2011, 03:37 PM   #18
Ravenshead
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Ravenshead's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: League City, Tx
Posts: 1,159
Liked 34 Times on 29 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

No, brewhouse efficiency is independent of pre-boil volume. If two brewers end up with the same amount of wort with the same gravity in their fermenters, their efficiencies are the same regardless of how they got there. The once with the lower pre-boil volume just did it in less time and used less propane/electricity/etc.

__________________

[QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polorl69 View Post
I had no problems whatsoever getting my pee to ferment.
Ravenshead is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2011, 03:43 PM   #19
Scooby_Brew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 993
Liked 26 Times on 21 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

I understand that, but if two brewers end up with the same OG and the same after-boil volume, they both have the same Brewhouse Efficiency, but the one with higher pre-boil volume has a lower Mash Efficiency?

__________________
"My Brew Day" on YouTube.
RDWHAHB
Scooby_Brew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-22-2011, 03:52 PM   #20
Ravenshead
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Ravenshead's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: League City, Tx
Posts: 1,159
Liked 34 Times on 29 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Mash efficiency is calculated as volume times measured gravity divided by volume times the theoretical gravity that would be present if all the sugar was extracted from the grain. Thus, the person with the higher pre-boil volume would have a lower pre-boil gravity. Assuming they both lose the same amount of wort to trub, their mash efficiencies would have to be the same for them to get the same final volumes and gravities.



__________________

[QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polorl69 View Post
I had no problems whatsoever getting my pee to ferment.
Ravenshead is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brewhouse Efficiency and Adjuncts ThoricourtBrewing Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 02-28-2010 12:33 PM
Beginner's Brewhouse Efficiency aleiexjr Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 01-28-2010 05:02 AM
Mash Efficiency Varnish Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 1 08-10-2009 12:25 PM
Brewhouse Efficiency? Snafu Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 04-09-2009 09:19 PM
Mash efficiency McCuckerson Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 1 10-30-2008 01:38 AM