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Old 01-18-2013, 07:38 PM   #71
45_70sharps
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Originally Posted by thadius856 View Post
Completely disagree with this.

Moving your shopping online doesn't kill jobs any more than cell phones killed telecommunication, and it's a pretty good analogy. Landlines (B&M stores) are becoming rare and often redundant, cell phone sales (online stores) have boomed, and we spend a lot more time on them (more money with them).

The stocker job becomes a warehouse inventory job. The cashier job becomes a packer/shipper job with the machine doing the invoice for them. The display job becomes the website item listing job. Customer service is still customer service, just through a different medium. Etc etc.

It doesn't kill jobs. It just shifts them. If you end up spending more money than before because it's easier to shop in your pajamas from your iPad, then that generates jobs.

Don't forget that you're creating additional jobs at the shipping company as demand rises. We're getting to the point where Amazon is tooling up distribution centers for same-day delivery in some areas.
So... When I order the latest do dad on line, in what way does that help my local economy?

If I order from Amazon.com and they drop ship from the factory, how many people are cut out of the loop?

If five stores close down in my little county, we have lost tax revenue and paying jobs while at the same time not even having an impact on the volume of big online retailers so no jobs are added.

One warehouse worker at a big online retailer replaces a lot of local jobs.
They are more or less a very efficient production line that ships out orders.
Regardless, if the warehouse isn't in your hometown, you have lost in the local economy.
If those people are out of work they are not spending at places like where I work.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:44 PM   #72
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Don't forget that you're creating additional jobs at the shipping company as demand rises. We're getting to the point where Amazon is tooling up distribution centers for same-day delivery in some areas.
Yep, the new Amazon warehouse will be going up close by in Tracy/Patterson. Good for the local economy and same day delivery? Double sweet.

Let's also not forget that the internet age helps a lot of small businesses become successful that would not otherwise thrive in a small local economy. Most of the sponsors on this site probably fit that description.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:50 PM   #73
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I could literally walk to my LHBS. And it's a family business and they host events and such.

I've cut a lot of costs by going AG and I'm on the brink of starters. But as far as grain goes I'll stick with them as their prices are on par with per pound online (bulk makes a difference). Plus I'm getting good efficiencies with their milling and they're even open seven days a week until 7.

I am shopping around for hops though. I'd like to get it closer to $1/oz compared to $2.30 right now.

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Old 01-18-2013, 07:57 PM   #74
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I do a mix of LHBS and online. I bought my original equipment, almost all my yeast, and some kits from the LHBS. I like to order kits from online shops since there is more variety. If I'm buying for a recipe I'll get the hops online since the LHBS sometimes doesn't have them. And get the grain from the LHBS.

If you get helpful tips and can bounce ideas off the guys in the shop, its worth paying a little extra.

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Old 01-18-2013, 07:59 PM   #75
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So... When I order the latest do dad on line, in what way does that help my local economy?
I didn't say it does. Other than sales tax revenues, which many places still have archaic, broken laws for, there is no local benefit. That's not the point.

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If I order from Amazon.com and they drop ship from the factory, how many people are cut out of the loop?
Pretty thin argument here, since clearly nobody can answer this one specifically. Why don't we flip it on it's head, then...

How many people are added to the loop? Other than those I mentioned as a straight trade, we have the shipper, the team that developed the website, the marketing team that lead you to the website, the engineers who designed the automation systems, the construction workers that build the factory, the heavy machine operators that assembled the place, the mechanic that maintains the new machinery, etc.

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If five stores close down in my little county, we have lost tax revenue and paying jobs while at the same time not even having an impact on the volume of big online retailers so no jobs are added.

One warehouse worker at a big online retailer replaces a lot of local jobs.
Then the people in your county would be forced to do their shopping online, which... wait for it... creates the jobs elsewhere. Why isn't your little county incentivizing online retailers to move there and pump your local economy?

Sure does. Replacing several inefficient processes with more efficient ones is the only way economies grow without increasing exports or popping out more babies.

It used to be every gas station had a service station in it. Now they don't. The mechanics didn't just disappear. They moved down the street to the auto shop.

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They are more or less a very efficient production line that ships out orders.
Regardless, if the warehouse isn't in your hometown, you have lost in the local economy.
If those people are out of work they are not spending at places like where I work.
You've already identified the problem: your business, whatever it does, is less efficient and can't operate at the same price point. So then why is your business allowing stagnation and not innovating?

This trend toward an online economy is quite parallel to how the industrial revolution killed the cottage industry, don't you think?
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:01 PM   #76
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mines $1.19 for 2-row and most other grains are $1.69-$1.79.... I would kill for $0.89 a lb for base grains.... might need to do a group buy for bulk grains in tucson
Yup my last group buy I got 2-row and Pilsen for $.75/lb shipped and it could have been $.65/lb if we had shipped to a business address.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:01 PM   #77
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One thing this thread has shown me is how lucky I am.
The brew store I go to might not be close, but when I'm in town their grain prices are pretty darn good.
Better than the posted online prices since they are 89 cents a pound for base malts and $1.25 for anything else.

They aren't even that busy in there. I'm not sure how they do it unless it's because everyone is like me.
I stop in for say... $30 worth of stuff.
I walk out with $100 worth of stuff that I decided I needed when I was waiting for them to put my order together.

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:03 PM   #78
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Why does anyone buy Coriander at any kind of homebrew supply store? At my local bulk food store I pay 28 cents for an ounce from what I remember.

You folks are lucky to have somewhere local to buy supplies, closest LHBS for me is over an hour away.

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:04 PM   #79
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I find supporting my local homebrew store is easy. I know I'm paying a bit more for grains, hops, yeast, and supplies, but as they get to know me there are benefits to going there. Sometimes its as simple as a free sample of this, a leftover that, getting grain freshly milled (I haven't yet put down on my own mill, I have only a burr grinder), but they also have beer samples from local brewers or beers they brew there, brewing vendors send reps for info sessions and handouts, breweries send brewers over to talk about different yeast strains and grains, and there are even hands-on brewing sessions for people just starting. It's like a live-action forum. If you're willing to be a premium supporter on this forum, why not pay the few extra bucks to be a premium supporter of your LHBS? All this in addition to any extra money floating around your community.

Besides, when the anarchists take over the world and knock out the satelites, you're gonna have to take your horse and buggy to the LHBS anway, so you might as well get on good terms with them now. You know, since you'll be bartering for the supplies in the future.

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Old 01-18-2013, 08:06 PM   #80
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Then the people in your county would be forced to do their shopping online, which... wait for it... creates the jobs elsewhere. Why isn't your little county incentivizing online retailers to move there and pump your local economy?
You missed the entire point.
If you displace local jobs, then not only is the tax from that company gone but the jobs are also.
You have people without the income to spend and your job is soon to follow.

It's the same thing as when people want to save a buck and buy a product made in China instead of American made.
If you cause your neighbors to be unemployed to save a couple bucks, then you will certainly follow when the people around you can't afford to spend money on whatever pays your check.

If you understand economics, by spending a dollar local you are actually getting a return that doesn't exist when you send your money away.

As for incentive for online retailers to move here or any other particular area, there isn't infrastructure for online companies to ship and I do not care to live near freeways, rail ways or major airports.
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