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Old 10-07-2012, 02:11 AM   #51
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I think this thread is like the twilight zone. Where despite best intentions everyone seems to misunderstand and take offense, and posters seem to be confusing what one person said with what another said... I think this is just one of those threads...
It's not just this thread, it happens a lot. You elaborate on what someone says, or heaven forbid, say something remotely in contention when answering and people are bound to take offense. It's the nature of the 'webs, you can't hear tone of voice, so explanations can sound condescending, expanding on or correcting can come off like you're putting someone down, etc.
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can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:39 AM   #52
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I think this thread is like the twilight zone. Where despite best intentions everyone seems to misunderstand and take offense, and posters seem to be confusing what one person said with what another said... I think this is just one of those threads...
I'll take a big mea culpa on this due to my complete brain fart and ignoring pH. I saw the original post and just had a kinda freak out and lost my head a bit.

Anyway, to amend, I don't think the OP will end up with anything terrible. Since it's a stout, he'll want to let it sit and anything he may have gotten will be negated with time. I think he's good to go.

I feel like a complete dumbass from this. My bad, OP, my bad.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:52 AM   #53
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:06 AM   #54
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It's not about taking offense guys, it's telling and dictating what is right from wrong. Theory and hands on practice tell us one thing, you guys come across as "the authority", saying things like "these guys don't know what they're talking about" or it's" bad advice ". There is no bad advice. You can only make recommendations but when guys step in and preach from the mountain, your essentially telling off someone because you don't agree with what has been thought for a long time or mentioned from experience. The fact of the matter is, I have a formal brewing education from Davis, I brew a lot, I compete a lot and love everything that beer stands for. I grew up around it and its been in my family for 80+ years but do I throw that at you no I referenced Papazian because 95% of what he wrote is still applicable for any homebrewer these days. Hell on my last class at Davis they told me flat out, you should never create a starter!

These guys that have been homebrewing and professionally brewing for 30 years and the whole bleach comment that was made. As of last year, household bleach is still considered safe. In water it becomes hypochlorous acid. 1.5 tsps in 5 gallons of water will give you a 25ppm solution which you will not have to rinse. Anything stronger than this needs to be well rinsed. So there you have it. Enjoying my Oktoberfest beer and watching Football. Live long and prosper

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Old 10-08-2012, 01:11 AM   #55
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It's not about taking offense guys, it's telling and dictating what is right from wrong. Theory and hands on practice tell us one thing, you guys come across as "the authority", saying things like "these guys don't know what they're talking about" or it's" bad advice ". There is no bad advice. You can only make recommendations but when guys step in and preach from the mountain, your essentially telling off someone because you don't agree with what has been thought for a long time or mentioned from experience. The fact of the matter is, I have a formal brewing education from Davis, I brew a lot, I compete a lot and love everything that beer stands for. I grew up around it and its been in my family for 80+ years but do I throw that at you no I referenced Papazian because 95% of what he wrote is still applicable for any homebrewer these days. Hell on my last class at Davis they told me flat out, you should never create a starter!

These guys that have been homebrewing and professionally brewing for 30 years and the whole bleach comment that was made. As of last year, household bleach is still considered safe. In water it becomes hypochlorous acid. 1.5 tsps in 5 gallons of water will give you a 25ppm solution which you will not have to rinse. Anything stronger than this needs to be well rinsed. So there you have it. Enjoying my Oktoberfest beer and watching Football. Live long and prosper
Edit: nevermind, I'm leaving this argument alone. Obviously, to you, my disagreeing is "preaching from the mountain", and I respectfully disagree with most of the things you've said in this thread, and on another. And frankly, bringing up your brewing education doesn't lend any more credit to incorrect information, nor does it give me any added reason to agree with you. I mean no offense by that. Enjoy your Ok'fest and I hope the Chargers win (unless you're a relocated cajun, then GO SAINTS).
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Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Originally Posted by bottlebomber View Post
Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:20 AM   #56
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Some intersting stuff there. How does the chlorine ppm relate to chlorophenol thresholds in the finished beer? The taste threshold for chlorophenol is 5 ppb so does not having more than 25ppm of chlorine ensure you will stay below that defect threshold? I also make wine and cork taint is a real concern so chlorine is not allowed in my work area.

I would think the starter advice is sound but you didn't give the reason. I'm sure pitch rate is still important. The average liquid yeast vial at 100% viability would give a pitch rate of about 4 million cells per ml (in a 5 gallon batch). Most recipes I've seen call for about 3 times that rate at fairly moderate gravities. So other than spending $21-28 for yeast (at $7 per vial), a starter makes pretty good sense. So I agree, given enough yeast eliminates the need for a starter.

I've been through a couple of Bamforth's books and would really like to take the Intensive course someday.

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Old 10-09-2012, 02:53 AM   #57
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I think the advice was that if you did everything right, your 1 vial of yeast should be perfectly fine. The starter is only intended to start fermentation faster and increase the number of cells. I've been actually doing a two yeast strain combination with nice results. I'll track down what exactly they offered in class.

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Old 10-09-2012, 06:37 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by jeffjjpkiser1 View Post
It's not about taking offense guys, it's telling and dictating what is right from wrong. Theory and hands on practice tell us one thing, you guys come across as "the authority", saying things like "these guys don't know what they're talking about" or it's" bad advice ". There is no bad advice. You can only make recommendations but when guys step in and preach from the mountain, your essentially telling off someone because you don't agree with what has been thought for a long time or mentioned from experience. The fact of the matter is, I have a formal brewing education from Davis, I brew a lot, I compete a lot and love everything that beer stands for. I grew up around it and its been in my family for 80+ years but do I throw that at you no I referenced Papazian because 95% of what he wrote is still applicable for any homebrewer these days. Hell on my last class at Davis they told me flat out, you should never create a starter!

These guys that have been homebrewing and professionally brewing for 30 years and the whole bleach comment that was made. As of last year, household bleach is still considered safe. In water it becomes hypochlorous acid. 1.5 tsps in 5 gallons of water will give you a 25ppm solution which you will not have to rinse. Anything stronger than this needs to be well rinsed. So there you have it. Enjoying my Oktoberfest beer and watching Football. Live long and prosper
I can't resist. I've been drinking a bit so sue me. I think it is just awesome that you berate us for being authoritative then you spout your UC Davis brewing education. That, my friend, is awesome!

edit: also, I had previously considered that if I had a serious career inclination to switch to brewing professionally I should go to UC Davis for a Brewmaster's Certificate. Now I'm thinking that would be a waste of time. Thanks for potentially saving me $10,000, more?
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:16 AM   #59
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I can't resist. I've been drinking a bit so sue me. I think it is just awesome that you berate us for being authoritative then you spout your UC Davis brewing education. That, my friend, is awesome!
I too, found that incredibly funny.
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Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
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Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Originally Posted by bottlebomber View Post
Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:51 AM   #60
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Now I'm off to read Jeff's lecture on Airlock Bubbles. I figure not only am I saving money on formal education by listening to this guy, I'm probably learning a lot more about the craft to boot. It's like training directly at the circus instead of wasting all that time in clown college.
End of primary fermentation is indicated when there's one bubble per 2:30 to 3:00 minutes, I thought everyone knew that.
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