late extract addition lme or dme

Paulasaurus · 03-03-2009, 11:02 AM

My current extract kit came with both lme and dme and i'd like to use the late extract addition method and of course know that I need some extract in the boil for hops utilization. So i'm thinking i'll add one at the beginning and one at the end. Which to add first and which to add last is my question.

From what i've read it seems that the lme would be best added at the end over dme. If so how to I keep the lme from scorching the pot?

Thanks all

**Grinder12000** · 03-03-2009, 11:05 AM

I keep the lme in a warm pot to make it more liquid-y. The remove the por from the heat, add the lme and stir - it will mix pretty quickly - then put the pot back on the heat and set the clock back 5 minutes.

Paulasaurus · 03-03-2009, 11:12 AM

Duh. Thanks Grinder. Dilemma solved.

I always add lme the way you described I just didn't think about using the same process later in the boil.

KDM · 03-03-2009, 02:18 PM

How 'bout that, I was just thinking about this very thing this morning. After reviewing Palmer's book, I'm still feeling out to lunch on a couple things:

1. How much of the extract should be added initially or reserved for later? I see no mention of quantities.

2. I see no mention of DME either, does it not work the same way? Why not?

3. What would happen if you withheld ALL extract 'til late in the boil?

Please forgive if Palmer has the answers in his book and I missed 'em. I really did read the whole thing...

ArcaneXor · 03-03-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

How 'bout that, I was just thinking about this very thing this morning. After reviewing Palmer's book, I'm still feeling out to lunch on a couple things:

1. How much of the extract should be added initially or reserved for later? I see no mention of quantities.

Usually, you want add enough extract initially so that the SG at the beginning at the boil is about the same or just a little below (to compensate for evaporation) the expected OG.

Quote:

2. I see no mention of DME either, does it not work the same way? Why not?

DME is just dried LME in powder form. Most people add it earlier than LME because it has a tendency to form annoying clumps that can take a while to dissolve in the boil.

Quote:

3. What would happen if you withheld ALL extract 'til late in the boil?

If you do extract-only, you'd be boiling hops in water or in a very dilute sugar solution (if you steeped crystal malts), which results in low hops utilization and possibly unexpected flavors. You want the hop constituents to have a chance to react chemically with the wort constituents for best efficiency and flavor.

Paulasaurus · 03-03-2009, 03:12 PM

Thanks for adding to my post.

My Amarillo Pale Ale extract kit came with 1lb light dme and 6lbs of gold lme.

I had never heard of the clumping of dme so good thing you posted that Arcane.

I have just heard about caramelization and sorts of things that lme can cause when added at the beginning so I thought i'd just guess that adding the dme at the beginning for the hops to have a playmate then add the lme with 10 or so minutes at the end would turn out well. Should keep the color nice and light and will be a good experiment in the process since this is my first attempt at late extract addition.

KDM · 03-03-2009, 03:18 PM

I'm still having trouble getting my head wrapped around all this, but I can say that carmelization isn't what happens to extract in the boil; it's Maillard reactions you're thinking of. For some strange reason Maillard reactions fascinate me.

Paulasaurus · 03-03-2009, 03:27 PM

Boy now i'm confusing myself. Your correct KDM, maillard reactions is the correct term I was thinking of. I've read so many threads on this i'm getting a bit mixed up

We'll see what happens, hopfully my beer won't blow up all over the kitchen because I didn't follow the directions properly.

*edit* I wonder if different mailard reactions come from lme and dme or do the same principals apply for both? Hmmmm

ArcaneXor · 03-03-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulasaurus

*edit* I wonder if different mailard reactions come from lme and dme or do the same principals apply for both? Hmmmm

The same, at least as soon as they are rehydrated. Once they are fully dissolved in the wort, they are indistinguishable from each other.

Don't overthink things. Boil some water, throw some malt extract and hops in there, keep it boiling, add the rest of the malt extract, boil some more, take off heat, chill, pour into fermenter, pitch yeast, and wait. You'll get beer.

jonbrout · 03-03-2009, 04:06 PM

Hmm, Just reading over this makes me question my last brew. I did the Yooper's Dead Guy clone. Extract based. It called for 4lbs of LME and 4 lbs of DME. I added the 4Lbs of LME at the start of the 1 hour boil and the 4lbs of DME 35 Minutes in to avoid extract twang. I tasted the hydro samples and it did taste off as well as it being 1.08 OG instead of 1.06 but at the time I contributed it to uneven wort mixture (even though I thought I stirred it very well, also, it did have a good bit of sediment in it)....Did i bone myself? O.o Hop addition was at 60 20 and 5.

I should probably just get a HB....

On a side note: Does a vigorous boil really make a difference when compared to a light boil (wort at 213 degrees-ish) besides the amount of boil-off?