Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Lager HELP
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-30-2007, 01:14 AM   #1
poguemahone
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
poguemahone's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 65
Default Lager HELP

Ok, so I did an Optimator mini mash over the weekend and may have gotten in a bit over my head. Any help is appreciated.

Brewed Sunday and all looked good. Have been reading up on lagers (this is my first) and pitched yeast (WL #00025) at around 70, same as my wort. My OG came out way low (1.048) but I continued because I think at the time it was due to water not being mixed well enough into my carboy and having just run the aerator on it. I did do a starter as well.
Strong fermentation and churn over the next 3 days and I started to cool it via a water bath, ice and towel. Brought it down to about 60 degrees and then transferred to the fridge. Fridge is reading at 55 degrees.
Next morning I check on it and now nothing is happening. No bubbles and my kreusen has disappeared.
Took a SG and it's 1.025.

Have I shocked the yeast back into dormancy? Do I need to re pitch? Am I freaking about nothing?

__________________

poguemahone is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2007, 03:13 PM   #2
poguemahone
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
poguemahone's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 65
Default

anyone?

:echo:

:echo:

:echo:

__________________
poguemahone is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2007, 03:17 PM   #3
zoebisch01
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
zoebisch01's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central PA
Posts: 5,198
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts

Default

First off I'd give it a few days. At their normal temps Lagers are slow, that is just the nature of fermenting colder. It seems to me that your initial fermentation temp was quite high and as a result you will probably have an Estery lager. Although it won't destroy your brew, it will produce flavors you don't really want or expect in a Lager.

__________________
Event Horizon ~ A tribute to the miracle of fermentation.

Brew what you like. Do this, and you will find your inner brewer.
zoebisch01 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2007, 03:24 PM   #4
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,656
Liked 4635 Times on 3366 Posts
Likes Given: 909

Default

Well, I haven't responded because I'm not lager expert! But, lager yeast is a bottom fermenting yeast and is slow and steady. You should ferment at the temperatures recommended by the manufacturer, so if you fermented at 70 degrees, you definitely don't have a lager.

I have never heard of WL #00025, though. That is the item number on Austin's website, but this is the description under that item number:

White Labs German Lager WLP830
$6.49


This yeast is one of the most widely used lager yeasts in the world. Very malty and clean, it is great for all German lagers, pilsners, and Oktoberfest-marzens.

Attenuation: 74-79%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 50-55 F
Alcohol Tolerance: 5-10%

Is that the yeast you used?
Sorry, I have no idea what to tell you except to be patient and wait it out. I wouldn't imagine you've shocked them into dormacy, because you have it at the fermenting temperature. Wait a few days, and then check the s.g. again. Then, if it's not changing a bit, then you can worry!

__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2007, 03:48 PM   #5
poguemahone
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
poguemahone's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 65
Default

Thanks for the input.

It is WLP830 that I used (I must have been out of it while typing).

I kinda tripped my way into this recipe and have been trying to make the best of it and figure at the very least I'll appreciate the ease of my ales. From what I've read I understand technically might not be a true lager but understood that I could pitch and let it start fermenting, then slowly bring it down to 55 for the rest of the primary, bring it back up to room temp for a day or two and then lager it in the secondary for another month or so.

I'm making a trip to AHBS later today and will ask them as well.

Either way I'm learning something new.

__________________
poguemahone is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2007, 06:04 PM   #6
Glibbidy
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Glibbidy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sunny Southern Vermont
Posts: 2,399
Liked 12 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poguemahone
Brewed Sunday and all looked good. Have been reading up on lagers (this is my first) and pitched yeast (WL #00025) at around 70, same as my wort. My OG came out way low (1.048) but I continued because I think at the time it was due to water not being mixed well enough into my carboy and having just run the aerator on it. I did do a starter as well.
Strong fermentation and churn over the next 3 days and I started to cool it via a water bath, ice and towel. Brought it down to about 60 degrees and then transferred to the fridge. Fridge is reading at 55 degrees.
Next morning I check on it and now nothing is happening. No bubbles and my kreusen has disappeared.
Took a SG and it's 1.025.

Have I shocked the yeast back into dormancy? Do I need to re pitch? Am I freaking about nothing?

Lager yeast works best at lower temps, compared to ales. It is not likely you have shocked the yeast, slowed it down is more like it. Next time around get your wort down to 50-55, and then pitch your yeast. Keep the yeast cold as well. I have found great success in pitching my yeast colder then my wort.

No need to repitch. Since you are already at 1.025 it would IMHO be a waste of money to throw additional yeast at it at this point. Yes, it is most likely that you are freaking out about nothing.

You did pitch the yeast way too high, and it is likely you under-pitched as well.
Read up on this Great lager wiki.

It sounds like you really don't have the resources presently available to truly make lager beer at this time. How long has it been in the primary fermenter? I'd let it ferment out a few more days and then take another gravity reading before racking it.
__________________

Glibbidy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2007, 06:21 PM   #7
poguemahone
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
poguemahone's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 65
Default

I read through that link prior. I probably did pitch too little. My starter was about 2 pints and I just didn't have an efficient way to pitch at 50 degrees.

It's only been in the primary for 5 days. I'm thinking that while it may not be a true "lager" I'll rack to secondary over the weekend since my sg is about .005 from my listed target and let that chill around 40 for the next month.

__________________
poguemahone is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2007, 06:29 PM   #8
Glibbidy
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Glibbidy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sunny Southern Vermont
Posts: 2,399
Liked 12 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by poguemahone
I read through that link prior. I probably did pitch too little. My starter was about 2 pints and I just didn't have an efficient way to pitch at 50 degrees.

It's only been in the primary for 5 days. I'm thinking that while it may not be a true "lager" I'll rack to secondary over the weekend since my sg is about .005 from my listed target and let that chill around 40 for the next month.
Beer as you know it, can't be rushed. Lager requires even more patience. My lagers typically ferment out in 9-12 days. You might be better off waiting til it's done fermenting. If you racked it at 1.025 as the terminal gravity your beer is going to be <3% abv, and prolyy super sweet taasting. I would recommend waiting it out for a few more days, taking another gravity reading and racking it when its done fermenting.

Please be patient and don't get discouraged .
__________________
Glibbidy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2007, 06:47 PM   #9
poguemahone
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
poguemahone's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 65
Default

Wont it continue to ferment though, albeit much slower, during the secondary time and then very slightly over the lagering or is that time spent adjusting flavors?

__________________
poguemahone is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2007, 08:19 PM   #10
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,656
Liked 4635 Times on 3366 Posts
Likes Given: 909

Default

Well, you want most of the fermentation done before you rack into secondary. It might drop a couple of points in secondary because there is still some yeast in suspension.

Here are my notes from my lager recipe (the MYbock):
Primary ferment @ 50 F for 12 days. Raise temp to 60 F for 2 days (Diacetyl Rest). Rack to secondary @ 55 F for 12 days. Slowly lower temp (5 degrees per day) to 35 F and "lager" for 4 weeks.

A lager is crisper and "cleaner" tasting than an ale, and usually very clear. You rack after primary to get the beer off the yeast cake and to clean it up. You will still get some flocculated yeast in secondary, but your beer is off the trub/big yeast cake before that. Also, a good resource is here:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10.html where he says, "During primary fermentation, the cooler temperature (45-55 °F) prevents the formation of fruity esters by the yeast. In addition to producing fewer byproducts during the primary phase, the yeast uses the long conditioning phase to finish off residual sugars and metabolize other compounds that may give rise to off-flavors and aromas. Unfortunately, this long time with the beer in contact with the yeast can be a problem. The problem is autolysis, i.e. yeast-suicide, which can produce terrible off-flavors in the beer."
He also goes on to talk about diacetyl rests, and that's also good reading!

Sorry for the long winded answer to your question! But, the short answer is to leave the lager in the primary at fermentation temperature for two weeks or so, do the diacetyl rest, and then rack to secondary and then after a couple weeks in the secondary, go ahead and lager.

__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lager Pitching Temp: Can we settle this lager debate? mdf191 General Techniques 32 11-02-2011 08:21 PM
What to do after lager?Making a Oktoberfest Lager using White Labs Octoberfest(WLP820 Evstakiev Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 1 07-20-2009 12:43 AM
Can I lager my lager starter for a week or two if I want to? HangLoose Recipes/Ingredients 1 04-18-2009 12:25 AM
Whoops! Bought Lager recipe but can't lager... patrck17 General Techniques 11 09-04-2008 05:30 PM
Seeking amber lager/Vienna Lager? ben_j8mmin Recipes/Ingredients 10 08-21-2008 03:21 PM