Just finished my 1st Batch of True Brew Octoberfest and it turned out...

After making this 1st batch that I have ever done and leaving it in 1st carboy 2 weeks, second carboy- 10 days and then 3 weeks bottle conditiong I thought I would have a great beer. WRONG, somehow it went terribly wrong. This kit had the Ale octoberfest yeast and was fermented temp was anywhere from 66-75% in the carboys. This brew has lots of carbonation, smells very friuty and tastes like a barley wine, high alcohol content. Odd flavor that is not pleasant. Its about a 24 on the srm chartaswell, much darker than typical octoberfest. Any ideas what could cause this?

hmmmmmm.........well I am always dubious of kits that are supposed to represent lagers but come with ale yeast. Also extract tends to be darker than all grain. However, without more information I can't really tell you why the taste came out like that. What was in the kit? Brew day procedures? Etc...

I think we need to know more about your process. What was your recipe exactly? What yeast was used?

gcdowd said:

I think we need to know more about your process. What was your recipe exactly? What yeast was used?

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here is the breakdown of the ingredients.. I also added a small pinch of sugar in each bottle before they were capped.

•Unhopped Amber Malt Extract (1 can)
•2 1lb bags of Light Dried Malt Extract
•Melanoidin Grain (8 oz)
•Hop Pellets (2 oz)
•Ale Yeast (1 pack)
•Grain Steeping Bag
•Priming Sugar (5 oz)

Well first, add your sugar to the bottling bucket and not the bottle. Do you know what type of hops you used and when you added them?

Dumb question but, did you top your fermenter with water to the 5 gallon mark before pitching the yeast?

AGadvocate said:

Dumb question but, did you top your fermenter with water to the 5 gallon mark before pitching the yeast?

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Yes I did... also I boiled the 1.5 gallons and then let it cool for about 10 minutes which is not long, but I wanted to get it cooled down quickly, so I put that still fairly hot wort in the 1st carboy and added the remaining 3.5 gallons of room temp water to cool it down quickly.

It sounds like it fermented too warm, even for ale yeast. Maybe the cooled wort wasn't cooled enough when you pitched the yeast? That would cause hot/solventy flavors (fusel alcohols) and fruity flavors.

Yooper said:

It sounds like it fermented too warm, even for ale yeast. Maybe the cooled wort wasn't cooled enough when you pitched the yeast? That would cause hot/solventy flavors (fusel alcohols) and fruity flavors.

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this could be possible... but the wort would have fully cooled down within 20-30 minutes, adding the yeast 15 minutes early would have sealed the fate of the entire brew process?

new_to_Breweing said:

this could be possible... but the wort would have fully cooled down within 20-30 minutes, adding the yeast 15 minutes early would have sealed the fate of the entire brew process?

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Well, if it cooled to 60 degrees before fermentation started, then no, it wouldn't affect it. But it sounds like it was pretty warm, up to 75 degrees at times? That's about 10 degrees too warm, and if the yeast was added at over 70 degrees it would mean that much of the yeast growth and the ester production that happens in the first 24 hours would have taken place.

It certainly isn't great for it, but I have pitched too high before and it turned out just fine as long as it does cool off. Do you know what temperature you pitched and what temperature it fermented?


edit: Oops. My bad. I'd say the fruitiness is from the high fermentation. You don't normally get this with octoberfests because they are lagers. Being darker is probably due to it being extract which is already darker, and caramelization on the brewpot. Can't really tell you much about the alcohol barleywine taste. What was the gravity?

Yooper said:

Well, if it cooled to 60 degrees before fermentation started, then no, it wouldn't affect it. But it sounds like it was pretty warm, up to 75 degrees at times? That's about 10 degrees too warm, and if the yeast was added at over 70 degrees it would mean that much of the yeast growth and the ester production that happens in the first 24 hours would have taken place.

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it would have been 67-73% when fermenting starting and completed, is this likley my problem? Is there any other likley issue other than this that could have runied my beer? Anybody want a good deal on a barleywine octoberfest?

I think yooper nailed it. Even at one day over the recommended temp for the yeast can produce fusel alcohol. Store it and open another in a month. see if it calms down, that's about all you can do.

temp control is one of the most important aspects of brewing. Do whatever it takes to keep it within the range of the yeast strain. many people have made that mistake, myself included.

There are many threads on here about temp and dyi projets that can help with it.

Oh, and adding a pinch off sugar to each bottle?

That's not a good way to do it. Use priming sugar, regular sugar or some use corn syrup. Boil a cup and a half of water for 5 minutes and add the sugar. Let it dissolve and cool for a little bit. pour out into the bottom of bottling bucket. When you siphon the beer in let it swirl to mix the priming solution in.

bob1006 said:

I think yooper nailed it. Even at one day over the recommended temp for the yeast can produce fusel alcohol. Store it and open another in a month. see if it calms down, that's about all you can do.

temp control is one of the most important aspects of brewing. Do whatever it takes to keep it within the range of the yeast strain. many people have made that mistake, myself included.

There are many threads on here about temp and dyi projets that can help with it.

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this is exactly the it "fuse alcohal" You say there is a chance in a month I wont have this fuse alcohol in it?

Beer is a living thing dude. Give it a chance, see what happens. I made cali common last year that I cold not drink for almost a year. it finally mellowed out.

fwiw, after adding 3.5 gallons of 50*F water to 1.5 gallons of 212*F water, you would still have around 5 gallons of 95*F water.

It would take more than 15 minutes for that to get down to 65*F by sitting in a room, probably a more like a few hours.

Try to get the wort a little below pitching temps next time, and let the yeast bring it up. I do extracts and I have a deep sink. I use a wire cooling rack, like for a cake, and put it in the bottom of the sink. I set my brew kettle on that, and fill the sink almost up to the wort level in the pot. add ice to the sink, and in 15 minutes, my boil is down to 100~ 120. I then add it to the primary and top of, the top off water is a lot more effective at cooling the wort the rest of the way, and I can usually pitch after giving it a good shake to aerate.

Or as some one mentioned on another thread, you can always use a wort chiller.

Letting it age might help this batch.

Good luck

D0ug said:

fwiw, after adding 3.5 gallons of 50*F water to 1.5 gallons of 212*F water, you would still have around 5 gallons of 95*F water.

It would take more than 15 minutes for that to get down to 65*F by sitting in a room, probably a more like a few hours.

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Hell yes to this. At my last brew day, I had 3 gallons of 212* water (top-off water, which I stuck in the carboy before I started the actual wort). I eventually added to this 2 gallons of 50* wort.

Eight hours later, it still hadn't fallen below 80*. I just pitched the yeast slightly hot, turned down the temperature in my house, and went to bed. Hope it didn't ruin anything, but I now know how long it takes this mess to cool.

This is starting to remind me of that video of the girl trying to figure out how long it takes to go 80 miles at 80 mph.

Cool your wort to just above fermentation temp, siphon into the fermenter with X amount of water in it. Snap the lid on, shake to mix (and aerate), open it, pitch the yeast and close it up.

new_to_Breweing said:

here is the breakdown of the ingredients.. I also added a small pinch of sugar in each bottle before they were capped.

•Unhopped Amber Malt Extract (1 can)
•2 1lb bags of Light Dried Malt Extract
•Melanoidin Grain (8 oz)
•Hop Pellets (2 oz)
•Ale Yeast (1 pack)
•Grain Steeping Bag
•Priming Sugar (5 oz)

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Did you add a pinch of sugar in addition to the 5oz of priming sugar?

OK I am not sure if I did this correctly or not, I followed the directions and it said to be sure the temp was below 90 degreess F. I checked mine before adding the yeast and it was below 90. Also, I had some container problems, my lid didn't fit my container so I had to purchased a new plastic contrainer and lid. I transferred the whole wort into the new container and shut the lid. I added the airlock. My wife said that the airlock was bubbling after about 24 hours but has seemed to have stopped. Is it finished or will I need to be patient? We figured that we could begin bottling after one week, should we wait a few more days? How do we know when it is ready to bottle?

Thanks.

Airlock activity is not a good indication of fermentation. They only way to really know is by taking hydrometer readings. In a few weeks check your gravity reading with you hydrometer then check again a few days later. If it is the same you are done fermenting and can bottle.


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