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Old 02-24-2012, 01:55 PM   #1
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Default IPA - Late LME addition - IBU?

I used an IPA kit last weekend, and following the many posts on this board that suggested a late LME addition I did that at 20 mins.

This was a 60 minute boil , with 1lb of light DME in for whole boil (plus 1.5 lbs of specialty grains steeped before boil)

I followed the hop schedule on the instructions
1.5 oz Chinook (15.5%) for 60 mins
1.0 oz Cascade (5.0%) for 60 mins
1.0 oz Cascade (5.0%) for 5 mins

Question is that when I put all this in Beersmith my IBU is a whopping 110 with the late LME addition, it's 61 without it.

My OG came in right about where the kit said it should 1.060

Question is, will this be a complete hop bomb?
I don't mind hoppy, just wondering what someone else thinks?

Also - I'm guessing if I do another I can just experiment with Beersmith to get my range, does that work well?

Thanks

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:20 PM   #2
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Did you do a partial boil? As far as I know, the point of adding late addition LME is to keep a constant gravity from partial boil to when you add water to top up to 5.5 gallons.

If you did a full size boil with only 1 lb of DME with those hop additions, your beer is going to be bitter as a mother ****er. With a lower gravity you'll get greater isomerization of your hops and dissolution of alpha acids in your wort.

As far as hop flavor you'll get a little amount from the Cascade late addition but the bulk of that is going to be aroma. Primarily your beer is going to be bitter.

I'm just curious, what was the reasoning for the late addition LME? If its something I've never heard before I'd like to find out about it.

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:36 PM   #3
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it was a partial boil, started with about 2.75 gallons, then topped up in the fermentor.

I have seen a lot of posts on these boards suggesting to add the LME late in boil
- it's already been boiled, you are just cooking it even more
- leads to a lighter colored finished product

if you do a search on it you'll see a number of posts

Thanks

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:39 PM   #4
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No, it should be fine. That's a lot of hops at 60 minutes, but you won't get anywhere near 100 IBUs- the IBU calculators are flawed when trying to guestimate IBUs of a partial boil.

Remember that the most you can ever get into a wort is about 100/120 IBUs, as that is the limit of solubility of the hops oils. Once the wort is saturated, it can't "hold" any more.

So, say you did get 100 IBUs in the wort (not likely). Then, you added 2.5 gallons of water at 0 IBUs. That means 2.5 gallons of 100 IBU, plus 2.5 gallons of 0 IBUs- for 50 IBUs if you're lucky.

In other words, don't worry!

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:40 PM   #5
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We do 2.5-3 gallon boils as well. We use 1.5-2lbs of the DME in the boil for hop additions. The remaining DME & all the LME at flame out gives lighter color & cleaner flavor without that extract twang & caramelization.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:11 PM   #6
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Thanks Yooper
That makes a lot of sense, seems like Brewsmith is giving the IBU for the wort at 2.5 gallons.

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Old 02-24-2012, 03:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPhad View Post
Thanks Yooper
That makes a lot of sense, seems like Brewsmith is giving the IBU for the wort at 2.5 gallons.
Maybe. There are some issues with IBU calcuators with partial boils, as well as with lower extract amounts in the boil. They just don't work all that well.

Take a listen to Basic Brewing Radio's talk "what is an IBU really?" for more info on why those calculators just can't really give you an accurate IBU reading with a highly hopped partial boil.
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Old 02-24-2012, 03:50 PM   #8
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In the software, just treat it as a full boil to get the IBU's going into the fermentor. If you want to have the correct SG for the partial boil there's a little math you can do.

Say the recipe calls for a 1.045 pre-boil gravity. LME is about 1.036 per pound per gallon. So to figure out how much to use in your partial boil volume to achieve the 1.045 gravity do this:

45 (preboil gravity) X 3 gallons (partial boil) = 135 gravity points

THEN

135 gravity points / 36 points per pound per gallon (extract contribution) = 3.75 pounds of LME to achieve your pre-boil gravity. Doing it this way allows you to use your 5 gallon recipe hop schedule and quantities because the hops only care about gravity, not the volume of the boil.

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Old 02-24-2012, 04:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPhad View Post
it was a partial boil, started with about 2.75 gallons, then topped up in the fermentor.

I have seen a lot of posts on these boards suggesting to add the LME late in boil
- it's already been boiled, you are just cooking it even more
- leads to a lighter colored finished product

if you do a search on it you'll see a number of posts

Thanks
OK, that makes more sense. I thought you were saying you had added extract late in a full boil which I've never heard of before. Like the others are saying, as long as your gravity remains constant your IBUs will as well.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helibrewer View Post
Doing it this way allows you to use your 5 gallon recipe hop schedule and quantities because the hops only care about gravity, not the volume of the boil.
actually, gravity doesnt have much effect on utilization. its more closely related to break material which was initially correlated to gravity
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