I THINK I found the "twang" problem

**Grinder12000** · 10-17-2008, 02:00 PM

Let me know if this makes sense.

I ordered a Fat Tire clone from AHS on July 19th - HOWEVER - I did not get around to brewing it until six weeks later and I do not think it was refrigerated.

Now this might not be "old" but when brewing it I let the mini mash get too high (170ish). By doing this I had more unfermented sugar in the final product.

From an exhaustive search of the net it seems many twangers have residual sugar.

PERHAPS the "old" LME and the residual sugar together combined to give me a twanger?????

**BigKahuna** · 10-17-2008, 02:09 PM

I would wonder if the Mini Mash @170 extracted some tannins from the grain...not the sugars. Obviously, a High Mash temp leaves more unfermentable sugars as would be indicated by your high F.G. But I doubt that the 6 week lag time in the LME is any issue...I'll bet that a TON of extract kits sit on store shelves for 6 months.
Has anyone else tasted your beer? You should send one to Revvy! He's Mr. Extract, and could probably tell you right off if your off flavor is extract related.

flyangler18 · 10-17-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

PERHAPS the "old" LME and the residual sugar together combined to give me a twanger?????

Did anyone else read 'twanger' as a euphemism for something dirty?

At 6 weeks sans refrigeration, you might have seen some degradation in the overall quality of the extract, but, like BK, I'm more inclined to see the higher mash temp as being responsible for what you are calling 'twang'- at 170, you're pulling tannins and getting a puckering astringency from the grain husks.

I seem to remember you having some issues with your thermometer's accuracy- have you figured that one out and adjusted for the difference?

**Grinder12000** · 10-17-2008, 02:27 PM

My next brew will be a new technique for Mini mashing with the oven in play instead if babysitting a electric glass top stove. The oven has a fan so it's like a confection oven which I have to think is better then a bottom heated oven and I can set it to exactly what temp I want.

Thermometer issues. Still working on that (good call - have to work on that TODAY).

If Revvy wants to try it I'm game!! I would love for him to try it.

My BIG question is that it tasted good at bottling and I was pumped last week after 8 days carbing how fine it was - then last night - blam slight twang. I do not believe it was excess carbing.

Would tannins creep in or be there from the beginning.

**Grinder12000** · 10-17-2008, 02:59 PM

I think BigKahuna hit on something. Reading in a mag about Astringency and how to fix it.

1. Don't oversparge
2. Reduce sparge temp
3. Increase dextrin Content
4. Lower PH of sparge water

Looking at #2 mash temp as too high - not really sparge water but . . . .
#4 Lower PH - I was told by AHS they suggest putting 1.5 cups of DME into mash water to help the PH - would this "help" by LOWERING the PH ???

flyangler18 · 10-17-2008, 03:14 PM

These are all related to temperature, and further, interdependent. One influences the next and vice versa.

170 is the temperature where extraction of tannins from the grain husks happens, and thus, it is our aim to never cross that threshold because tannins are not flavor characteristics that we want in our beer.

When you mash, you can adjust the relative fermentability of the wort through your mashing temperature. At higher temperatures (155 +), you are extracting long-chain dextrins which add to the body of the beer. As an example, the British mild is a low ABV beer but it has some beefiness in the body- due to a higher mash temp. By contrast, a Berliner Weiss is mashed low (like 149) to get a highly fermentable wort. PH is very important- and the closer you get to 5.2, the better. If you oversparge (too much water), you negatively alter the pH of the mash and facilitate the extraction of tannins. Bad.