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Old 11-16-2012, 03:29 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by matt-tastic

I've NEVER left a beer in primary for 3 weeks. my longest was 10 days, and that was because i didn't have time to earlier. I've never done a high gravity beer, which would take longer in the primary, but I have yet to find a reason to wait that long to rack.
Hmmm.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:01 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt-tastic

I've NEVER left a beer in primary for 3 weeks. my longest was 10 days, and that was because i didn't have time to earlier. I've never done a high gravity beer, which would take longer in the primary, but I have yet to find a reason to wait that long to rack.
Ummmm.... so you bottle before fermentation is done or you always use a secondary?
Both of which are silly.
10 days is pretty much the MINIMUM to have in primary. It is pretty rare fermentation would be 100% done before 10 days in primary.

This thread is chalk full of fishy advice.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:23 AM   #23
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This thread is chalk full of fishy advice.[/QUOTE]

+1
You really have to be sure that these forums are not your only source of information. That's not to say that they are not an awesome resource, they are...but forums do not take the place of books, published articles, etc.

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Old 11-16-2012, 12:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasdb View Post
Ummmm.... so you bottle before fermentation is done or you always use a secondary?
Both of which are silly.
10 days is pretty much the MINIMUM to have in primary. It is pretty rare fermentation would be 100% done before 10 days in primary.

This thread is chalk full of fishy advice.
I'm sorry. I forgot to mention I take reading daily after airlock activity stops. When I get 2 days back to back same readings, I know its ready to bottle.

Because, well, I understand chemistry.

But I take my previous statement back. I had a Kolsch in primary for 14 days, due to some dry hopping I did in the primary after gravity was reached. I don't currently use a secondary, and have never had issues with under fermented beer or "bottle bombs". I personally think letting beer sit for 3 weeks is prety useless advice myself, especially when most beers will have been done LONG before that.

Thats the great thing about brewing. its REALLY hard to do "wrong". If you follow the few basic rules, you're going to end up with beer. everything else is personal preference.

Also, the phrase you're looking for is "chock-full".
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dallasdb View Post
Ummmm.... so you bottle before fermentation is done or you always use a secondary?
Both of which are silly.
10 days is pretty much the MINIMUM to have in primary. It is pretty rare fermentation would be 100% done before 10 days in primary.

This thread is chalk full of fishy advice.
Not necessarily fishy advice, just a little random IMO.....

To add:
1. The reason you take a hydrometer reading is to determine and verify that the beer is in fact finished fermenting completely before packaging to avoid concerns of stuck fermentation as mentioned or worse, bottle bombs

2. Contrary to your belief that beer needs to be in primary for 3 weeks and that 10 days is too short, simply not true. Do you honestly think pro brewers tie up their equipment for a month before they churn out product? The fact is that if best practices are followed, meaning, proper fermentation temperature, pitch rate, aeration, etc. It is perfectly feasible for fermentation to complete in 3-5 days, verify fermentation is complete, cold crash to clear and settle and package in 10 days. If the entire fermentation was properly controlled there is no issue with off flavors so no need for extended primary to clean anything up. I have turned around some of my best pale ales within 14 days easy and my bavarian hefe is in the bottles in 11 days. Both have won awards!

IMO, a lot of what is posted on this site regarding extended primary is a result of less than perfect fermentation practice. As a result, extended primary is beneficial so the yeast can clean up a lot of their own off flavors due to poor temperature control, under pitching problems, poor aeration and basically over stressed yeast.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:08 PM   #26
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As I wrote in another thread, those who bottle after 7-10 days are neglecting to take into account the off-flavor bi-product precursors released by the yeast...

"I just want to address the falsity of trub flavor going into your beer if it's left in the primary for 3-4 weeks, and the poor practice of racking as soon as desired FG is reached.

The first situation will not happen unless yeast autolyzation sets in after a period of months. Furthermore, after the yeast use sugar and oxygen to create alcohol and carbon dioxide (which takes a total of 3-7 days) their job is still technically not complete. Your beer may very well at target FG, but it will also contain a ton of precursor laden off flavors. The beer will be drinkable if racked earlier, but these precursors should really be reabsorbed by the yeast if you want a quality beer. This takes time - usually takes 3-4 weeks total in the carboy in the 60's (F). I've noticed 17-21 days of bottle conditioning at 72 F is ideal for my ales."

Off flavors can result from numerous reasons as described by the last paragraph of the previous poster. But off flavors as it pertains to these precursor bi-products have nothing to do with poor fermentation practices, underpitching, stressing yeast, poor nutrients, low initial o2 levels, and/or temperature control issues. All brewing yeast releases off-flavors during the first week or so and it should really be given the chance to be fully reabsorbed so the quality and flavor of the beer is at the highest level it can be.

Lastly, brewing on the home scale is completely different and involves vastly different equipment, care, methods than brewing on the commercial scale. You cannot feasibly compare these time frames of completion by taking your homebrew and comparing it to a hectolitre operation.

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Old 11-16-2012, 01:22 PM   #27
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I just wanted to bring up a point that hasn't been mentioned here. As breweries we are very interested in the final gravity of the beer as it is an indication of mouthfeel and taste.

I am an all grain brewer and I have a target FG for all the beers I brew. I recently did an ESB that turned out pretty good, my FG ended up 1.012. While I am happy with this, I wanted more like 1.014 to give a little more body and residual malty sweetness, but not too much. The next time I mash for this beer I will probably bump up my temp 2 degrees or add some cara-pils.

I put a lot of time and effort into my brews and want to produce beers that are not only good but outstanding, every time. Part of this is nailing OGs and FGs. I am finally starting to be able to predict what my OG and FG will be before I buy the ingredients because of the notes I've taken and things I have learned along the way.

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Old 11-16-2012, 01:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Off flavors can result from numerous reasons as described by the last paragraph of the previous poster. But off flavors as it pertains to these precursor bi-products have nothing to do with poor fermentation practices, underpitching, stressing yeast, poor nutrients, low initial o2 levels, and/or temperature control issues. All brewing yeast releases off-flavors during the first week or so and it should really be given the chance to be fully reabsorbed so the quality and flavor of the beer is at the highest level it can be.
Agreed, however and not to sound contradictory, if proper fermentation practice was followed the normal by products of fermentation are readily handled by healthy productive yeast and IMO/IME don't necessarily require 2-3 weeks to re-metabolize these by products. Stressed yeast will produce more off flavor producing compounds in greater quantity that would then require more time to be cleaned up as the yeast was stressed from the start.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:31 PM   #29
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Brewer's yeast, whether healthy of not, will still emit off flavors from their bi-products during active primary fermentation (the first week). It's inevitable.

I'm not arguing that brewing with stressed yeast is not poor practice. But not everyone who bottles after 3-4 weeks is brewing with stressed yeast. Yeast that have been given time to reabsorb their nasties, and then drop to a state of dormancy in 3-4 weeks are not stressed yeast.

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Old 11-16-2012, 04:41 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbrews
Brewer's yeast, whether healthy of not, will still emit off flavors from their bi-products during active primary fermentation (the first week). It's inevitable.

I'm not arguing that brewing with stressed yeast is not poor practice. But not everyone who bottles after 3-4 weeks is brewing with stressed yeast. Yeast that have been given time to reabsorb their nasties, and then drop to a state of dormancy in 3-4 weeks are not stressed yeast.
Like I said, I agree, all I'm trying to say is that if at 10-14 days, the beer is clear, reached FG and tastes great then most likely sitting an additional 2-3 weeks isn't going to make that marked a difference. I have had beers where that's the case and I've had others that I elect to give more time, it just depends on the beer and the yeast and how they decide to behave.
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