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Old 10-03-2012, 09:19 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Minky View Post
I have no problem with what you're saying, but my response had to do with the fact that it is true that it is very difficult to achieve adequate levels of oxygen in higher gravity wort. Even in lower gravity wort you shouldn't expect that you can pitch a smack pack, hit it with some indeterminate amount of oxygen and expect good results. If you pitch enough healthyyeast you don't need to worry about massive injections of pure O2. You will still want to aerate, but you don't have to be so concerned about getting enough in solution or retaining it long enough for adequate yeast growth.
Can you define "enough healthy yeast"?
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:30 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by pabloj13

Can you define "enough healthy yeast"?
Here's an analogy: you hire two crews of experienced carpenters to build a house. One crew is designated the party crew and they drink heavily every night and show up for work hung over but still work although not very efficiently.

The second crew are the straight arrows and show up for work well tested everyday and perform the work but they work more efficiently and get more work done each day.

This is what's meant by growing the appropriate healthy yeast cell count. If you grow the proper pitch rate, pitch into a properly chilled wort, provide proper aeration and ferment at the proper temperature the yeast will do what they are there to do in the most efficient manner possible and make you great beer!

It's all about balance and proper fermentation environment. If over pitch/under pitch/ don't properly aerate, pitch too hot, ferment too hot or cold then you throw the ability of the yeast to do what they do. It's not that they won't work and make you beer, they will, but the final product will not be as good as it should have been. Without yeast you have no beer so make those little dudes as happy as can be
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:52 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by duboman

Here's an analogy: you hire two crews of experienced carpenters to build a house. One crew is designated the party crew and they drink heavily every night and show up for work hung over but still work although not very efficiently.

The second crew are the straight arrows and show up for work well tested everyday and perform the work but they work more efficiently and get more work done each day.

This is what's meant by growing the appropriate healthy yeast cell count. If you grow the proper pitch rate, pitch into a properly chilled wort, provide proper aeration and ferment at the proper temperature the yeast will do what they are there to do in the most efficient manner possible and make you great beer!

It's all about balance and proper fermentation environment. If over pitch/under pitch/ don't properly aerate, pitch too hot, ferment too hot or cold then you throw the ability of the yeast to do what they do. It's not that they won't work and make you beer, they will, but the final product will not be as good as it should have been. Without yeast you have no beer so make those little dudes as happy as can be
I know what you and I mean. I am not sure that is what they are referencing.
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Simple and easy wort aeration - Harvest yeast from your blowoff - Homebrew Spicy Mustard
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:55 PM   #74
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Can you define "enough healthy yeast"?
As far as actual cell counts, it varies on what you're brewing. Check out www.mrmalty.com for pitching guidelines.

There's a very in-depth discussion of this topic here:

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/for...php?f=2&t=4000

Jamil Zainasheff (sp?), Eric Watson, and others give their advice on starters, aeration, etc. It's a very informative discussion which gives reasons for why there's not a one-size-fits-all answer for everything.

For instance, most of us know that it is possible to overpitch, but even if you pitch the appropriate amount of yeast, if you also over-aerate it may produce a result similar to overpitching.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:17 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minky

As far as actual cell counts, it varies on what you're brewing. Check out www.mrmalty.com for pitching guidelines.

There's a very in-depth discussion of this topic here:

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/for...php?f=2&t=4000

Jamil Zainasheff (sp?), Eric Watson, and others give their advice on starters, aeration, etc. It's a very informative discussion which gives reasons for why there's not a one-size-fits-all answer for everything.

For instance, most of us know that it is possible to overpitch, but even if you pitch the appropriate amount of yeast, if you also over-aerate it may produce a result similar to overpitching.
Hey, thanks for the link. Interesting and very informative.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:32 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by travis123
Good minds are at work

Regards Travis

Question:- Is Yeast like Leaf on a tree, it absorbs oxygen & produces CO2? (All living organisms require oxygen?)
No and yes. Yeast is not like a leaf on a tree as leaves take in CO2 and produce oxygen, not the other way around. (So all living organisms do NOT require oxygen.)

Yes, yeast takes in oxygen and sugar to produce CO2 and alcohol.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:51 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Minky View Post
As far as actual cell counts, it varies on what you're brewing. Check out www.mrmalty.com for pitching guidelines.

There's a very in-depth discussion of this topic here:

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/for...php?f=2&t=4000

Jamil Zainasheff (sp?), Eric Watson, and others give their advice on starters, aeration, etc. It's a very informative discussion which gives reasons for why there's not a one-size-fits-all answer for everything.

For instance, most of us know that it is possible to overpitch, but even if you pitch the appropriate amount of yeast, if you also over-aerate it may produce a result similar to overpitching.
Ok, I was confused by your "not growing new yeast in the wort" comment, which is absolutely not true. I am absolutely for pitching at the right rate. However, Mr Malty and other calculators are assuming a properly aerated wort. It is not sufficient* just to grow the amount of healthy yeast they say and pitch. I'd say the likelihood of OVER-aeration is pretty rare.

*All of these things are an effort to make the best beer possible, by the book. Frankly, if most brewers pitched what Mr Malty recommended and controlled fermentation temps, they would make darned good-great beer every time.
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Simple and easy wort aeration - Harvest yeast from your blowoff - Homebrew Spicy Mustard
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:48 PM   #78
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Hmm... before I found this thread, I was advised that an easy way to aerate your wort was with a paint mixer attachment on a drill. So I bought one at Home Depot and gave it a good wash - is it safe to use this in my wort, even though it was intended (but never yet used for) mixing paint? Will 2-3 minutes of vigorous mixing with this thing on my drill sufficiently aerate my wort?
Yes, this works but it must be cleaned AND sanitized prior to use.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:50 PM   #79
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I was wondering how much 02 would get into a 2l starter vortex during growth phase?

This thing looks neat:

http://epiphanybrewing.com/throw-your-stir-plate-away/

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Old 10-04-2012, 07:44 PM   #80
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Ok, I was confused by your "not growing new yeast in the wort" comment, which is absolutely not true. I am absolutely for pitching at the right rate. However, Mr Malty and other calculators are assuming a properly aerated wort. It is not sufficient* just to grow the amount of healthy yeast they say and pitch. I'd say the likelihood of OVER-aeration is pretty rare.

*All of these things are an effort to make the best beer possible, by the book. Frankly, if most brewers pitched what Mr Malty recommended and controlled fermentation temps, they would make darned good-great beer every time.
Yeah, that's what I get for posting in a hurry! You definitely get some yeast reproduction in the wort, but the yeast should be built up and ready to go before it's pitched. In other words, you don't want the entire reproductive phase to take place in the wort. It's especially important in the case of liquid yeasts which need to be roused out of a deep sleep (I don't know the proper term). Not only is it not ready for fermentation, it's not ready yet to reproduce. So you don't want to just pitch a vial or smack pack and hit it with oxygen.

As far as over-aeration, I really don't know the how or why. I'm just repeating what I'm reading about it. Check out the link from my previous post.
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