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Old 09-21-2012, 01:41 AM   #31
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I think that the question of how, and how much, to aerate is dependent on too many variables to specify a "best" method or time.

As previously stated, oxygen is only needed in the growth stage of yeast. The only reason to oxygenate wort is when yeast is pitched at a lower cell count than necessary for the quantity of wort being fermented. In theory, if the yeast has been previously oxygenated in the process of making a starter, and has been built up to a sufficient cell count, there should be no need to aerate the wort at all. Fermentation takes place anaerobically. Dry yeasts, in particular, have been through the whole growth stage and, as long as the viable cell count is high enough, they should be good to go without any further oxygen.

I had personally been plagued with sluggish and, at times, high FG fermentations back when I was using pure oxygen for aeration. Once, I even had a beer judge comment that my beer was oxidized, and it was only 6 weeks old! I then switched to a an aquarium pump, and noticed an immediate improvement in fermentation times and FG's. I believe, under the right conditions, that aeration of wort is not necessary and can, in fact, be detrimental.

I will be brewing in the next week or two, and I am going to put my theory to further test. I will pitch two packs of US-05 in a 5 gal. batch. The only aeration it will receive is whatever splashing occurs as it is transferred into the fermenter and moved.

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Old 09-21-2012, 01:46 AM   #32
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I think it's a stretch to call that thing a regulator since it does not regulate at all as far as i can tell. for the price of that kit you are half way to a O2 cylinder that would last for hundreds of batches if not more, a real regulator would be around $40 at harbor freight.
I'm going to chime in here without any scientific evidence. I used the 1/8 oz of pure O2 when I first started brewing. That HD 6$ purchase every 3rd brew became a pain in the rear. An aquarium pump with sufficient flow and a stone @ 10/15 minutes seems to foam up just fine. The final outcome is strong yeast production in the early stages and then complete fermentation.

So try what you can afford to do. Just don't skimp on sanitation at such a critical stage. BB
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:37 AM   #33
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I had personally been plagued with sluggish and, at times, high FG fermentations back when I was using pure oxygen for aeration. Once, I even had a beer judge comment that my beer was oxidized, and it was only 6 weeks old!
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I used the 1/8 oz of pure O2 when I first started brewing. That HD 6$ purchase every 3rd brew became a pain in the rear.
I hope you guys realize that you were using about 100 times more O2 than was needed. Three brews from one O2 canister? Really?

I brew 10 gallons every 2-3 weeks and have been using the same canister for about 2-1/2 years.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:17 AM   #34
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I hope you guys realize that you were using about 100 times more O2 than was needed. Three brews from one O2 canister? Really?

I brew 10 gallons every 2-3 weeks and have been using the same canister for about 2-1/2 years.
I can guarantee that I was using NOWHERE NEAR that amount. Your ASSumption is incorrect.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:27 AM   #35
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I can guarantee that I was using NOWHERE NEAR that amount. Your ASSumption is incorrect.
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Once, I even had a beer judge comment that my beer was oxidized, and it was only 6 weeks old! I then switched to a an aquarium pump, and noticed an immediate improvement in fermentation times and FG's.
Sounds to me like you were using way, way too much.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:15 PM   #36
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Sounds to me like you were using way, way too much.
And that was the entire premise of my post. Three brews per canister is obviously WAY "too much", but "too much" can also be the 30-40 seconds of pure O2 that I was using. My experience with O2 led me to conclude that O2 was not necessary, and could be detrimental. It may be useful, or even necessary, in a commercial brewery, but they have the equipment to test oxygen levels, etc. I think O2 is total overkill at the homebrew level.

If you underpitch yeast you will definitely need to aerate the wort to bring the cell count up, but you don't know how much is too much. Build up your cell counts with a healthy starter before you pitch, and you should be be OK without having to worry about "how much is too much". And you definitely won't need pure O2.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:42 PM   #37
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And that was the entire premise of my post. Three brews per canister is obviously WAY "too much", but "too much" can also be the 30-40 seconds of pure O2 that I was using. My experience with O2 led me to conclude that O2 was not necessary, and could be detrimental. It may be useful, or even necessary, in a commercial brewery, but they have the equipment to test oxygen levels, etc. I think O2 is total overkill at the homebrew level.

If you underpitch yeast you will definitely need to aerate the wort to bring the cell count up, but you don't know how much is too much. Build up your cell counts with a healthy starter before you pitch, and you should be be OK without having to worry about "how much is too much". And you definitely won't need pure O2.
not true.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:57 PM   #38
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not true.
OOOOOOOKAY........................................ ..that's all ya got? No explanation? Do you really intend to suggest that pure O2 from a tank is necessary for aeration? Air isn't good enough?

OK. Check out what brewing expert, Eric Watson, has to say:

http://www.beertools.com/html/articles.php?view=245

Here's Eric's surprising advice on aerating wort:

"If possible, don't! The reason is that it is not the wort that needs the oxygen, it is the yeast. By oxygenating the wort instead of the yeast starter, it will cause an over production of cells due to the excessive oxygen presence. This then leads to the production of unwanted esters and higher alcohols that will compromise beer flavor.

When oxygenating starters, you cannot use pure O2... the reason is that the uptake occurs too fast and without a dissolved O2 meter ($$$), you cannot tell when to stop. The way to properly do this one is to aerate using a high pressure aquarium pump, sterile air filter and a stainless steel aeration stone, all of which are readily available. It is virtually impossible to over-aerate using air, so you will avoid oxygen toxicity problems that will occur if trying to do this with pure oxygen."

When using dried yeast, he recommends no aeration at all. The yeast was properly aerated before drying and has been properly prepared for the fermentation immediately. Just rehydrate the yeast (he recommends 90deg water) for 30 minutes and dump into the non-aerated wort.

Please note that I am not advocating no aeration at all. I'm advocating against the use of pure O2.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minky View Post
OOOOOOOKAY........................................ ..that's all ya got? No explanation? Do you really intend to suggest that pure O2 from a tank is necessary for aeration? Air isn't good enough?

OK. Check out what brewing expert, Eric Watson, has to say:

http://www.beertools.com/html/articles.php?view=245

Here's Eric's surprising advice on aerating wort:

"If possible, don't! The reason is that it is not the wort that needs the oxygen, it is the yeast. By oxygenating the wort instead of the yeast starter, it will cause an over production of cells due to the excessive oxygen presence. This then leads to the production of unwanted esters and higher alcohols that will compromise beer flavor.

When oxygenating starters, you cannot use pure O2... the reason is that the uptake occurs too fast and without a dissolved O2 meter ($$$), you cannot tell when to stop. The way to properly do this one is to aerate using a high pressure aquarium pump, sterile air filter and a stainless steel aeration stone, all of which are readily available. It is virtually impossible to over-aerate using air, so you will avoid oxygen toxicity problems that will occur if trying to do this with pure oxygen."

When using dried yeast, he recommends no aeration at all. The yeast was properly aerated before drying and has been properly prepared for the fermentation immediately. Just rehydrate the yeast (he recommends 90deg water) for 30 minutes and dump into the non-aerated wort.

Please note that I am not advocating no aeration at all. I'm advocating against the use of pure O2.
yeah, that guy also says that we shouldn't first wort hop because it's detrimental to head retention.

i also learned that dextrins are not related to mouthfeel. interesting to say the least.

if it were true that pure O2 was detrimental lots of us here would have probably noticed by now, not to mention all of the commercial craft brewers who use pure O2. in my case i won 2nd place at the world beer cup with an american pale ale that got at least a minute of pure O2. if you are saying that my beer will be better using just air and not pure O2 i'll have to back to doing it that way. i remember my beer getting better after going to pure O2 but i'll try it out anyway.
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:58 PM   #40
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>.My experience with O2 led me to conclude that O2 was not necessary, and could be detrimental.

>>Please note that I am not advocating no aeration at all. I'm advocating against the use of pure O2.


Not according to the Yeast book, by Chris White.
But what does he know about yeast?

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