How much water will grains soak up?

impatient · 01-08-2009, 03:27 AM

I plan to do a protein rest @120 using 2.5 gallons of water with 10lbs of Two-Row for a SMaSH. How much water should I expect 10lbs to soak up?

Also, I was wondering if I can use the protein rest water to sparge with?

dontman · 01-08-2009, 03:39 AM

I forget the figure. It is something like 1/4 or 1/3 Q /per pound.

I am totally bewildered by your second question. Trying to be nice here but I'm not sure what you are picturing. The protein rest water is a subset of your mash water. After the rest you either decoct it to raise the protein temp to saccharification temp or you add liquor to bring the protein mash up to saccharification. Either way the water stays in use until you drain it to the kettle. Then comes sparging. (With different water.)

BarleyWater · 01-08-2009, 03:44 AM

A protein rest is only part of a mash schedule, and sparge water is something different all together. You really should use some brewing software (BeerSmith, BeerTools Pro etc.) to figure out what your trying to do before jumping into all grain.

impatient · 01-08-2009, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontman

I forget the figure. It is something like 1/4 or 1/3 Q /per pound.

I am totally bewildered by your second question. Trying to be nice here but I'm not sure what you are picturing. The protein rest water is a subset of your mash water. After the rest you either decoct it to raise the protein temp to saccharification temp or you add liquor to bring the protein mash up to saccharification. Either way the water stays in use until you drain it to the kettle. Then comes sparging. (With different water.)

I planned to pull the grain bag and move it to 155 degree water and then put it into the oven at 155 for an hour. I wanted to add more water to the protein rest water and bring it up to 170 for the sparge.

Does removing the grains from the protein rest water remove the enzymes strip the enzymes and cause problems with saccharification?

Just learing here. So, don't be shy. You won't hurt my feelings.

**Bobby_M** · 01-08-2009, 03:52 AM

I think trying to step mash for your first all grain is highly ambitious, and not in a good way. Try a single rest temp for a while.

To answer your question though, grain holds about .1 gallons per pound so 10 pounds would soak up about 1 gallon.

BarleyWater · 01-08-2009, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by impatient

Does removing the grains from the protein rest water remove the enzymes strip the enzymes and cause problems with saccharification?

Absolutely. You must leave the grains in the whole time, you need to raise the mash temp in the same vessel, or do a single temperature infusion with no protein rest (which really isn't usually necessary, or beneficial).

impatient · 01-08-2009, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarleyWater

Absolutely. You must leave the grains in the whole time, you need to raise the mash temp in the same vessel, or do a single temperature infusion with no protein rest (which really isn't usually necessary, or beneficial).

I thought 2-row recomends a protein rest for crystal clear bear and maximum efficiency.

OK, I will be sure and leave the grains in the protein rest water and add boiling water until the temp is up to 155. Then I'll put it in the oven.

Next question:

Can I use a small amount of sparge water? I want to minimize reduction time.

I was thinking that I could use two container and keep pouring the same water back thru the grain during the sparge using around 2 gallons. Will that work out?

hazzards · 01-08-2009, 04:02 AM

First off, I usually use 1/2 qt/lB for water retention, but some of that also accounts for dead space in my MLT.

Second, I'd think that there would still be enzymes available in the grain and the liquid in the grain for conversion, though you might want to rest a little longer than an hour if your paranoid. In the least, you could pull some of the water you used for your protein rest and put it in with the grain in the oven.

I haven't used an oven to do a mash, though I read about it. Sounds interesting, though I don't envy you moving a 10lB bag of wet grain.

impatient · 01-08-2009, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazzards

First off, I usually use 1/2 qt/lB for water retention, but some of that also accounts for dead space in my MLT.

Second, I'd think that there would still be enzymes available in the grain and the liquid in the grain for conversion, though you might want to rest a little longer than an hour if your paranoid. In the least, you could pull some of the water you used for your protein rest and put it in with the grain in the oven.

I haven't used an oven to do a mash, though I read about it. Sounds interesting, though I don't envy you moving a 10lB bag of wet grain.

I have a 5 gallon pot that is wide and short. Fits right in the oven. What the hell.

BarleyWater · 01-08-2009, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by impatient

I thought 2-row recomends a protein rest for crystal clear bear and maximum efficiency.

A protein rest is definitely not needed for well modified 2-row, and can actually do more harm than good and leave you with a thin beer that has no head.

The less sparge water you use, the lower your efficiency will be, and recirculating the same sparge water won't do anything to extract more sugars from the mash, once its saturated it won't draw out anything else, sparge water should be clean fresh water.

I agree with Bobby, a protein rest would not be advisable for your first all grain beer. Of every AG beer I have brewed, I have done a protein rest 1 time for a beer high in wheat (which can benefit from a protein rest sometimes), and it made no difference from my normal efficiency.

Mashing in the oven works well, I did it all the time when I partial mashed.