Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Fruity flavors - esters

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-22-2012, 12:58 AM   #1
DrVertebrae
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 219
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default Fruity flavors - esters

I've brewed about 12 batches, all extracts. Most have had a bit of a fruity overtone, one with a bit of banana ester. I ferment at 65F or so (the upstairs A/C is Awesome and I can run it a lot with little increase in the electric bill 16SEER! I love it) and have been reading that the fruity flavors develop during the initial fermentation if it is too high. The two exceptions were the very first one I brewed and an IPA. How much of this can I expect to decrease if I let them lager longer? I have been doing two weeks at room temp and then popping them into the frig. Would longer at room temp work? Can I substitute a yeast which produces less fruity flavors and esters for the one that comes with the kits?

Also, are the partial grain kits from Midwest good? I'm not ready for the all grain thing but these kits look pretty promising.

__________________
DrVertebrae is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2012, 01:02 AM   #2
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,717
Liked 4367 Times on 3175 Posts
Likes Given: 850

Default

Do you have a stick-on thermometer on your fermenter? The reason I ask is that I've seen fermenting beer be as much as 10 degrees higher than the ambient temperatures so if your room is 65 degrees, the fermenting beer could be 75 degrees! That's too high for all but maybe one or two ale strains.

If you have a stick-on thermometer, and have ruled that out, a couple of other things that contribute to esters:

Too high of a pitching temp. Make sure the wort is at or below fermentation temperatures before pitching the yeast;

Underpitching of yeast. In most cases, one 11 gram package of dry yeast is enough, but for liquid yeast almost all brands do not have enough yeast. The result is stressed yeast which contributes to ester formation;

Yeast strains that tend to be "estery". Some yeast strains, like S04, tend to throw esters anyway and any warm temperature will increase that. In that case, using a "cleaner" yeast strain may help.

__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2012, 01:09 AM   #3
Qhrumphf
Stay Rude, Stay SHARP
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Qhrumphf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 6,263
Liked 1422 Times on 1027 Posts
Likes Given: 602

Default

Is 65 the ambient air temperature, or the temperature inside the fermenter? Air is a very poor heat conductor, and an ambient temperature of 65 could mean as high as 75 inside the fermenter. And 75 is definitely hot enough to kick off a lot of esters and/or phenols. The best solution is an insulated chamber with temperature control based on the temperature of the beer itself, but a plastic bin filled with water will also work well (as water conducts heat far better than air does). 65 is a good temperature for most ales (if that's the beer temperature) and most ales don't need lagering (although a cold crash isn't a bad thing). Usually the yeasts that you'd ferment at warmer temperatures are the yeasts that you WANT to kick off esters and phenols (Belgians namely). Otherwise, proper temp control is really the only way to do it.

What yeasts were you using? Banana's a pretty common (and desirable) ester for hefe strains and a lot of Belgian strains.

__________________

Up Next: Spiced Winter Warmer, Brett. C. Old Ale
Primary: Best Bitter, English IPA
Secondary: Sour Stout, Wild Bitter
Polypinned: English Summer Ale, Coniston Bluebird Bitter Clone v1.5
Bottled: Sticke Altbier, Doppelsticke Altbier, Weizenbock, Berliner Weisse, Spruce Brown Ale, Arrogant Bastard Clone
Bottled for the long haul: Brett B. Tripel, Quadrupel, Tripel, Brett C. Oaked English Barleywine, Lamebic

Qhrumphf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2012, 01:10 AM   #4
DrVertebrae
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 219
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

I do use the stick on thermometer. I can tell you, when it reads 66, the room is cold!

As to pitching the yeast, I have started to rehydrate it prior to pitching. Those are still conditioning so we'll see about that one. I haven't used any of the liquid yeasts yet.

I'll try getting the wort cooler before pitching too. I have usually pitched at 75 to 80 but its down in the sixties by morning and just beginning to produce CO2.

What about longer lagering though? Cool or room temp?

__________________
DrVertebrae is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2012, 01:12 AM   #5
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,717
Liked 4367 Times on 3175 Posts
Likes Given: 850

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrVertebrae View Post
I'll try getting the wort cooler before pitching too. I have usually pitched at 75 to 80 but its down in the sixties by morning and just beginning to produce CO2.

What about longer lagering though? Cool or room temp?
Pitching cooler should help tremendously.

Lagering doesn't fix esters in my experience, but it's worth a try.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2012, 02:40 AM   #6
rodwha
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lakeway, Texas
Posts: 3,069
Liked 102 Times on 96 Posts
Likes Given: 53

Default

I'm an A/C guy. Setting your thermostat that low can freeze up your evaporator coil and damage your compressor. Many variables, but 65-66* is awfully low. We typically don't recommend anything below 69*.

__________________
rodwha is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2012, 03:56 AM   #7
TarVolon
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Durham, North Carolina
Posts: 211
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodwha View Post
I'm an A/C guy. Setting your thermostat that low can freeze up your evaporator coil and damage your compressor. Many variables, but 65-66* is awfully low. We typically don't recommend anything below 69*.
69? Wow. That seems awful high. I usually have to set it at 68 or lower to just be comfortable, let alone to ferment.
__________________
TarVolon is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-22-2012, 09:31 AM   #8
DrVertebrae
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 219
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Heck Tarvalon, these things are amazing. One for up stairs and one for down stairs. I'm in Dallas and last summer, the hottest on record, a 2900 sq ft house, keeping in the sixties at night, low 70's in the day, I had no elecctirc bill above $280/moonth whilst my neighbors were hitting 500 and $600. Me A/C guy lives across the street and looks at'em each year. Even when my wooly dogs hair got all over them, they workd fine.

I couldn't be happier with them at this point.

__________________
DrVertebrae is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-23-2012, 03:26 AM   #9
DrVertebrae
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 219
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Its been about 5 more days and the lesson of patience is all too clear. I tried one today and behold, a great tasting beer without any hint of banana or standout fruity esters. The truer word could not be said, give it time and then ty it. Fantastic taste with the hop end I wanted. It went well with sauteed garlic/paprika sauteed shrimp and Red Lobster style garlic rolls. I'm very happy about this. From now on, patience.

__________________
DrVertebrae is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question about esters. pyth Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 13 12-28-2011 03:38 AM
question about temp control and fruity esters zodiak3000 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 12 08-04-2011 04:11 PM
Will esters age out? bonzombiekitty Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 07-08-2011 01:00 PM
Fruity off flavors ChandlerBang Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 11 11-25-2010 01:00 AM
why are esters bad? donjonson Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 11-18-2010 01:20 PM