Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Flat Taste

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-26-2011, 02:04 PM   #1
lonepalm
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 202
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default Flat Taste

After the month long wait of getting my first batch done start to finish.

My wife and i celebrated selling/buying a house and what better way to do so than with your own beer!

First sip was a little flat, but as the beer breathed a little bit in the glass it got better.

Any suggestions/ideas? But that was Monday, had another last night as i couldn't resist it got better.

John

__________________
lonepalm is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2011, 02:06 PM   #2
Ace_Club
Legendary Influential Brewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Ace_Club's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 35,765
Liked 1524 Times on 1448 Posts
Likes Given: 52725

Default

Congratulations on the new house!

Now, can you give us more info on the batch details? How long in primary, how long in bottles, bottle conditioning temp, etc?

A month total seems a little short. If you're looking at 2 weeks primary, 2 weeks bottles, then they should be carbed, but the beer will still be green. If they've been in the bottle for less than 2 weeks, you need to give the bottles more time to condition fully.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrregularPulse View Post
I'll make my buddy do it with me next time. That'll make me go harder at it.
"If guns don't kill people, why do we give people guns when they go to war? Why not just send the people?" - Ozzy Osbourne

Sent from my iPhone 4s.

Canon T2i | EF-S 18-55mm | EF 28mm 1.8 | EF 50mm 1.8 | EF-S 55-250mm

3 whipped dog straights, Gillette Ball End Tech, 1959 Gillette Fat Boy

Secondary: Strawberry Melomel
Ace_Club is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2011, 02:13 PM   #3
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2728 Times on 1636 Posts
Likes Given: 3485

Default

My beers are 8 weeks from grain to glass, so if you're drinking a beer that's only a month old, more than likely it's not fully carbed AND conditioned yet. Just the time in the bottles ALONE is important to letting the carbing and conditioning process to complete itself.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2011, 02:16 PM   #4
lonepalm
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 202
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Ok

Was just following kit directions on readiness,....7-10 days

American Amber Ale
65deg in fermentor for 16 days
same temp in bottles now but it was minimum of 7 days.

so i know i'm a little antsy...just isn't time.

__________________
lonepalm is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2011, 02:19 PM   #5
lonepalm
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 202
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

My wife is really behind me on the beer hobby, so i am just spinning all the ideas on my setup, either basement or garage. would like to have all in basement in storage area...there is a stove that we will be taking out but think it will stink the house up

__________________
lonepalm is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2011, 02:25 PM   #6
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2728 Times on 1636 Posts
Likes Given: 3485

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonepalm View Post
Ok

Was just following kit directions on readiness,....7-10 days

American Amber Ale
65deg in fermentor for 16 days
same temp in bottles now but it was minimum of 7 days.

so i know i'm a little antsy...just isn't time.
Yup, that's the problem....kit instructions should be tossed out.

What those instruction usually leave out is the use of a hydrometer to PROVE that fermentation has indeed stopped in 7-10 days.

As most of us now realize, if fermentation can sometimes take 3 days to even begin, there is a high likely hood that it is not really done on the 7th day (come one we KNOW that the inexperience brewer will read 7-10 days and do it on the 7th, I did my first time, it's human nature.)

The kit and kilo or basic kit manufacturers are banking on the fact that they only have a limited window of sales to an individual before he/she moves on to the next step of brewing, either trying recipes in books or online, or going all grain. So the bank on 2-3 sales per new brewer before they discover how to brew beer better.

Also as you ALL know, as you became more experienced, this is a hobby about patience, but in this quick trunover society retailers know that something that takes time, would be less popular than something with a quick turn around time...So they know that even though the beer would be better if they told the n00b to wait even a week further, they want to make this hobby as "pain free" as possible....

They're not technically lying, IF the yeast takes hold within a few hours and finishes in a week, you can bottle a lower to moderate gravity beer in 10 days, as Orfy's 10 for 10 milds proves. They just leave off the fact that waiting even a week more makes for better beer.

If you've noticed, it's mostly the kit and kilo, brew in a bag or mr beer type kits that say to do it quickly. The better kit manufacturers usually tell you to wait, as well as suggest to use a hydrometer. I've noticed the the Norther Brewer Catalog gives the most accurate range of their beers based on gravity and style. They will say, for example, "primary for 14 days, secondary 3-6 months, bottle condition another 6" for a higer grav beer.

We have multiple threads about this all over the place, like this one http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ignore-instructions-do-not-bottle-after-5-10-days-78298/

You'll find that more and more recipes these days do not advocate moving to a secondary at all, but mention primary for a month, which is starting to reflect the shift in brewing culture that has occurred in the last 4 years, MOSTLY because of many of us on here, skipping secondary, opting for longer primaries, and writing about it. Recipes in BYO have begun stating that in their magazine. I remember the "scandal" it caused i the letters to the editor's section a month later, it was just like how it was here when we began discussing it, except a lot more civil than it was here. But after the Byo/Basic brewing experiment, they started reflecting it in their recipes.

Where fermentation is concerned, If you arbitrarily move your beer, like to follow the silly 1-2-3 rule (or instructions that say move after a week or when bubbles slow down), you will often interrupt fermentation. Because sometimes the yeast won't even begin to ferment your beer until 72 hours after yeast pitch, so if you rush the beer off the yeast on day 7 then you are only allowing the yeast a few days to work. The problem is that yeast don't know how to read so they seldom follow the instructions. They dance to their own tune and its seldom 4 x 4 Time.

This often leads to stuck fermentation because you have removed the beer from the very stuff you need to ferment your beer. The yeast....It can often lead to the same off flavors one gets if they undrpitch their yeast.

Besides, fermenting the beer is just a part of what the yeast do. If you leave the beer alone, they will go back and clean up the byproducts of fermentation that often lead to off flavors. That's why many brewers skip secondary and leave our beers alone in primary for a month. It leaves plenty of time for the yeast to ferment, clean up after themselves and then fall out, leveing our beers crystal clear, with a tight yeast cake.

One thing to remember is that yeast can't read....they really don't know what the instructions in the kit say, they dance to their own tune. Same with bottling instructions.

Walk away from your beer for a couple weeks, and you'll come back and post how much better the beer is then. You'll be like 99% of the posters just like you that we get every day.

Just remember that this isn't making koolaid, nor how much we'd like to be the case, is it a race. It's a process and one where we have little control over timeframes.

Beers are ready when they're ready, and that really is the yeast's decisions, not ours. They really ARE the ones in charge of this whole brewing thing. Not us, or not even the folks who write the instructions.

Hope this helps.
__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2011, 02:42 PM   #7
Rev2010
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Posts: 1,591
Liked 72 Times on 50 Posts
Likes Given: 175

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonepalm View Post
same temp in bottles now but it was minimum of 7 days.
Since I'm new I intentionally opened one from my first batch 7 days after bottling. I figured it's good to learn where it's along at that point and such. Sure enough it was quite flat. Had one at the two week mark, this past weekend after a full day or two in the fridge, and whoila... carbonation! BUT, it's still not finished... still needs a little more carbonation and more so needs a bit more clearing time.

So don't feel guilty, it's a learning experience. Now the question that would've always bugged you had you waited longer, "Gee... could it really be ready in 7 days?" is answered and you'll relax and wait. Or you'll test again early with another brew just for the observation experience. I'm opening two more this weekend (week 3) and am pretty sure it will be much better.


Rev.
__________________
Rev2010 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2011, 03:17 PM   #8
lonepalm
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 202
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Thanks Guys!

Not expecting a lot from the batch, just wanted to get the process down!

__________________
lonepalm is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2011, 03:54 PM   #9
BoisePorter
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 89
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

I must be cheap or poor. I dunno how you guys can bottle condition at 70F. There's just no way I can afford to heat my house at that temp. I just put a digital thermometer near my bottles and it says 63F. I bottled this past Saturday (1/22/11) after 5 weeks in the primary. I was hoping they'd be ready by 2/14/11 (roughly 3 weeks) but just reading Revvy's comments tells me it's just not going to be carb'ed by that time.

__________________
BoisePorter is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-26-2011, 03:56 PM   #10
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2728 Times on 1636 Posts
Likes Given: 3485

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoisePorter View Post
I must be cheap or poor. I dunno how you guys can bottle condition at 70F. There's just no way I can afford to heat my house at that temp. I just put a digital thermometer near my bottles and it says 63F. I bottled this past Saturday (1/22/11) after 5 weeks in the primary. I was hoping they'd be ready by 2/14/11 (roughly 3 weeks) but just reading Revvy's comments tells me it's just not going to be carb'ed by that time.
Well in the winter I don't. I live in a loft and keep in in the 60's in the winter and it takes twice as long, if not more for a beer to carb up. The three weeks @ 70 is just to give a rough idea of what it takes. Like I said above, gravity and storage temps are the two most important factors as to how long it takes.

If your place is colder, and you have a deadline, then you need to plan accordingly.
__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2 batches taste flat sorefingers23 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 06-24-2010 08:42 PM
First Brew First Taste: Vinegar/Sharp/Turned Cider taste. ErikHoppy Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 12 03-14-2010 06:24 PM
NB Cream Ale taste like flat bud light Kaner Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 12-04-2009 05:43 PM
What should a gree flat and warm brew taste like? Rhymenoceros Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 11 01-27-2009 03:35 PM
Flat schilkedog Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 1 03-25-2008 12:46 PM