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-   -   First AG off flavor. (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/first-ag-off-flavor-369336/)

moorerm04 11-22-2012 01:24 AM

First AG off flavor.
 
I have been brewing for a while now, started partial mash right out if the gate an have made some great beer. My wife and I recently moved to a new house with more room so I decided to brew an AG batch. I installed a RO system for my water and its great. Brewed a batch of the cascades and oranges APA in the recipe database. Everything went perfect, but I tastesd the beer when I moved it into the keg to age, and it has a ma vegetable taste like celery, and finishes with a unmistakable grain taste. Not what expected. Anyone have any advise. Perhaps my mash PH is all off and I have DMS or something going on in there.

zzARzz 11-22-2012 01:42 AM

It may either be DMS or a bacterial infection. Did you have any signs of infection when you transferred from the fermenter? Other causes can be wort that is cooled too slowly or with a lid firmly attached during the boil (DMS).

There's a decent article here that covers what causes various off-flavors in beer.

moorerm04 11-22-2012 01:49 AM

No lid during boil... So it wasn't that. There was no sign of infection and it smells fine. It takes be about 1 hr to get down to pitching temp so not unusually long wort cool down. I am wondering if the hops I bought were bad. I bought a pound of cascade pellets but I am wondering if they were stored properly. Maybe the grain was getting old too... It looked like a brand new barrel of Marris Otter. Nothing looked smelled or tasted stale. I probably screwed something up with my mash and sparge. I got great efficiency though? I'm just confused.

moorerm04 11-22-2012 01:56 AM

I have had crappy luck brewing IPA's and APA's the last few I have brewed I have ended up with strong hop astringency zero aroma, floral, citrus nothing. Even with additions and dry hopping. I think I am going to switch to whole leaf hops for that style of beer from here on out. Will that make a difference.

Hex23 11-22-2012 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moorerm04
No lid during boil... So it wasn't that. There was no sign of infection and it smells fine. It takes be about 1 hr to get down to pitching temp so not unusually long wort cool down. I am wondering if the hops I bought were bad. I bought a pound of cascade pellets but I am wondering if they were stored properly. Maybe the grain was getting old too... It looked like a brand new barrel of Marris Otter. Nothing looked smelled or tasted stale. I probably screwed something up with my mash and sparge. I got great efficiency though? I'm just confused.

One hour cooling is relatively long. But I think what's most important with SMM->DMS formation is the time it spends above 140F. Even with ice bath cooling you should be able to get under 140 in 10 maybe 15 minutes. With an immersion chiller and decent water temps you should be able to get there in under 5 min.

moorerm04 11-22-2012 02:12 AM

Yeah my 25' coil chiller doesn't get the job done as well with a full boil... Plus my tap water is like 68 or a touch higher. I do have some pretty hard water, but I have not had any trouble with any I my other brews here at the new house so far. I made a vanilla coffee porter PM that turned out great. My pitching and fermentation temps were in the mid 60's I am just lost. I am thinking something between bad hops, or mash PH being too high, I haven't gotten that advanced yet but I will be before the next brew day .

zzARzz 11-22-2012 02:28 AM

It sounds like a slow cooling of the wort is the likeliest candidate, especially if it is only happening when you have a high percentage of light malts (pilsner, maris otter) as your base.

Have you tried stirring your wort in the opposite direction of your chiller flow while cooling? I've found that, while tedious, stirring has shaved a good 20 minutes off of my cooling times. The other thing that has worked very well for me is adding salt to my ice bath. I'm able to cool my wort in less than 20 minutes now with my homemade IC.

My tap water is a bit colder than yours, but by trying those two additional methods I imagine you should still be able to reduce your temps to pitching range in 30 minutes or less.

moorerm04 11-22-2012 02:39 AM

Thanks for the advise.... I am going to let this beer carb up in the keg and ride it out, might turn out fine. I will work on cooling faster, and I am going to try and get a fix on what kind of PH levels I am mashing at.


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