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Old 12-29-2012, 08:25 PM   #21
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Ambient. It was a kit from Austin brew supply I think it was white labs liquid ale yeast.
Find out which yeast and look up it's optimum fermenting temperature. You can safely 'assume' that the fermenting temp was 5-10F above ambient. If you moved it from the yeast too soon, you could be getting the off flavors that the yeast would have cleaned up had you not moved it too soon. If you dry hopped it, and left them in the brew too long, that could be the flavors you're getting.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:29 PM   #22
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Yeah was my 3rd batch and I didn't condition it at all. I've read a few different philosophies on conditioning. Most agree to leave it on the yeast cake just not too long, say over 30 days? I'd like to free up my fermenter tho for the next batch so I was thinking 2 weeks in the carboy, then transfer to the keg at around 65f for another two weeks. Thoughts?
Again, 2 weeks is just waay too soon. Try to avoid black and white, one size fits all answers. Age it on the yeast at least one week after the gravity stops dropping and your problems will likely go away. Believe me, it's worth the wait. If it's turn time you're concerned with, cough up a few extra bucks for another carboy. Good beer takes time....
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:52 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Golddiggie

Find out which yeast and look up it's optimum fermenting temperature. You can safely 'assume' that the fermenting temp was 5-10F above ambient. If you moved it from the yeast too soon, you could be getting the off flavors that the yeast would have cleaned up had you not moved it too soon. If you dry hopped it, and left them in the brew too long, that could be the flavors you're getting.
California ale 68-73. No dry hopping yet. I'm leaning towards the moved it too soon theory. I've got a batch of mock fat tire going. Sunday is 2 weeks, its not crystal clear yet, but I was planning to move it to a keg Sunday and let it condition in the keg for 2 weeks before chilling. Think I'll just let it sit instead and see what happens. After that is it ok to keg a chill immediately? I mean how do you know for sure?
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:52 PM   #24
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Again, 2 weeks is just waay too soon. Try to avoid black and white, one size fits all answers. Age it on the yeast at least one week after the gravity stops dropping and your problems will likely go away. Believe me, it's worth the wait. If it's turn time you're concerned with, cough up a few extra bucks for another carboy. Good beer takes time....
How do you know when enough is enough?
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:53 PM   #25
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California ale 68-73. No dry hopping yet. I'm leaning towards the moved it too soon theory. I've got a batch of mock fat tire going. Sunday is 2 weeks, its not crystal clear yet, but I was planning to move it to a keg Sunday and let it condition in the keg for 2 weeks before chilling. Think I'll just let it sit instead and see what happens. After that is it ok to keg a chill immediately? I mean how do you know for sure?
Dude, leave it alone until it's actually ready. If you need the fermenting vessel for another batch, go buy another one. IMO, NOT worth moving a beer before it's ready.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:54 PM   #26
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When the FG test out to be stable over a couple days.
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:54 PM   #27
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How do you know when enough is enough?
Taste and experience... IMO/IME, leaving it in primary longer won't do any harm. I've had brews in primary for more than three months without issue. Moving too soon is the source of the majority of the issues for new brewers.
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K1:
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:05 PM   #28
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As a follow on, I just re-read the thread and noticed it's only your 3rd batch. I brewed plenty of stinkers at that level!! Assuming good sanitation, the most important variable in fermentation is temperature. The temperature of the beer, not the air around it. During active fermentation, (1st few days when bubbling like crazy) your beer can be as much as 10 degrees higher than the air around it. Too warm can definitely lead to off flavors. Consult the yeast company for ideal temperature for strain. As the ferment slows, you have to raise the air temp so the beer doesn't cool. The best setup is an extra fridge with a temperature controller. Low tech solutions include moving it around to different locations in the house, ice water baths and blankets.
Another very important variable is aeration. Most new brewers and even some experienced ones just don't get enough oxygen into the wort before pitching the yeast. They shake the carboy for a few minutes and call it good. This results in all kinds of fermentation problems including off flavors and under attenuation (not getting down to final gravity). I read a study done by White labs that showed 5 minutes of the "shake and splash" resulted in less than half of the required dissolved oxygen yeast need to get a proper start for a good ferment. I use an oxygen tank and metal air stone to inject oxygen into the wort. The same type of stone and an aquarium pump works also, but you have to leave it on longer (at least 10 minutes vs 1 with O2). This is especially important if you are only pitching a vile or smack pack of yeast. This is "underpitching", or not pitching the recommended amount of yeast for a given gravity beer. Since oxygen is a key factor in yeast reproduction, you have a two-fold problem, not enough healthy yeast to ferment your beer properly.
I'm off on this rant to stress the fact that we make wort, it's the yeast that make the beer. A fairly boring, plain-jane recipe that has been properly fermented by happy, healthy yeast will very likely taste better than the most creative, delicious sounding recipe that was under-pitched, under-aerated and not temperature controlled.
All this said, your beer will very likely still improve if you let it age. I've been disappointed by many a first taste and it never ceases to amaze me how much a month or more cool in the bottle or keg improves a beer.

Welcome to the world's best hobby!!!!!

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Old 12-29-2012, 10:11 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demus
As a follow on, I just re-read the thread and noticed it's only your 3rd batch. I brewed plenty of stinkers at that level!! Assuming good sanitation, the most important variable in fermentation is temperature. The temperature of the beer, not the air around it. During active fermentation, (1st few days when bubbling like crazy) your beer can be as much as 10 degrees higher than the air around it. Too warm can definitely lead to off flavors. Consult the yeast company for ideal temperature for strain. As the ferment slows, you have to raise the air temp so the beer doesn't cool. The best setup is an extra fridge with a temperature controller. Low tech solutions include moving it around to different locations in the house, ice water baths and blankets.
Another very important variable is aeration. Most new brewers and even some experienced ones just don't get enough oxygen into the wort before pitching the yeast. They shake the carboy for a few minutes and call it good. This results in all kinds of fermentation problems including off flavors and under attenuation (not getting down to final gravity). I read a study done by White labs that showed 5 minutes of the "shake and splash" resulted in less than half of the required dissolved oxygen yeast need to get a proper start for a good ferment. I use an oxygen tank and metal air stone to inject oxygen into the wort. The same type of stone and an aquarium pump works also, but you have to leave it on longer (at least 10 minutes vs 1 with O2). This is especially important if you are only pitching a vile or smack pack of yeast. This is "underpitching", or not pitching the recommended amount of yeast for a given gravity beer. Since oxygen is a key factor in yeast reproduction, you have a two-fold problem, not enough healthy yeast to ferment your beer properly.
I'm off on this rant to stress the fact that we make wort, it's the yeast that make the beer. A fairly boring, plain-jane recipe that has been properly fermented by happy, healthy yeast will very likely taste better than the most creative, delicious sounding recipe that was under-pitched, under-aerated and not temperature controlled.
All this said, your beer will very likely still improve if you let it age. I've been disappointed by many a first taste and it never ceases to amaze me how much a month or more cool in the bottle or keg improves a beer.

Welcome to the world's best hobby!!!!!

Lol you mean the worlds most complex? Temp controlled fermenting? Man I gotta long way to go!
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:20 PM   #30
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Learning 'yeast wrangling' will help you to get better and better beer in your glass. Not imposing a human time frame on the yeast is the first step. Giving them enough O2, nutrients, and time are also big steps along that path. Pitching the correct amount of yeast cells (or at least within 5-10% of where you should be) also seriously helps.

There's a metric ass-ton of posts/threads about all of these subjects already, so I won't go into them [much]. I will say that you can get O2 into the wort faster/easier with a pure O2 system. Starters will give you the cell count you need, with stirplates making the starters smaller and finish faster.

BTW, you might want to get the Yeast book. At $12.50 it's money well spent.

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Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
Fermenting
K1:
K2: Epic mead
K3: TripSix
On Deck: Caramel Ale
Aging:mead
Mead [bottled]:Oaked Wildflower Traditional, Mocha Madness, Blackberry Melomel, maple wine
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