Continuous off taste

I'd like to consider myself at least not a newby anymore as I have brewed about 21 batches, but I am still having a little problem. Many batches (maybe 1/4 to 1/3) seem to have an "off" taste, usually toward the fruity or sour side. Now for background:

I buy recipes from a good homebrew store in Charlotte, NC. Each includes the dried malt extract, specialty malts, hops, and recommended yeast (sometimes I use dry, sometimes liquid, but always the recommended). I have done a primary and secondary fermentation on all. I figured wild yeast/bacteria infection might be the problem, but I have been about as sanitary as I am capable of. I use plastic pails (5-6 gal) and one glass carboy that I rotate. I have made pilsners, bitters, stout, scotch ale, wheat beer, pale ales, etc. The one that always comes out good is Old Peculiar, a British singular with molasses. It has always been good. On the other hand, my favorite beer IPAs, always seem off.

Any and all comments will be appreciated and I can add detail as needed. BTW, I never thow any beer out and it seems they do get drinkable with time although maybe I am just increasingly desperate (and my college age son and his friends even enjoyed the one my wife dubbed "The Swill"). Thanks.

First, how do you ferment, at what temperature and do you try anything to control the temperature. I always thought my beers tasted a little off until I got ferment temps under control.

Second, what is your water source? Tap? Is it filtered? Does it taste good?

Those would be the first big questions I would ask.

Kaz said:

First, how do you ferment, at what temperature and do you try anything to control the temperature. I always thought my beers tasted a little off until I got ferment temps under control.

Second, what is your water source? Tap? Is it filtered? Does it taste good?

Those would be the first big questions I would ask.

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Second Kaz on fermentation temps. Fermenting too warm can cause some of these fruity flavors you are experiencing.

Edit:

Also, you mention your IPA's are off. Beers with a malt backbone tend to be able to hide off flavors easier than less malty beers such as IPA's.

you pitching adequate amount of yeast (Mrmalty.com) and aerating? Not treating your yeast well from the start can noticeably bring down the quality of your brew, especially noticeable to someone whose brewed as much as you. 21 brews in you're able to pick out what flavors should be there and what flavors shouldn't. At this point you're probably picking out more subtle off flavors.

Appreciate the comments and I think temp may have something to do with it. If I tend to be a little sloppy, it's in that category. I sometimes ferment on the back porch when temps in South Carolina are a little cooler, but temp goes from 58 to 72 each day. Other times I put it in house, but it is usually around 70 which may be a little warm for some of these.

And thanks for the comments on malty beers. They definitely come out better.

Tap water tastes fine, don't think that's an issue. I used soft water from an Artesian well near here for a bohemian pilsner and it was pretty durn good.

Fruity could definitely be from warm fermentation. If the air temp is 70F, the temp of the ferment could be 5-10 degrees higher. Also, the swings could be pretty extreme. You should try a swamp cooler to get things under control. Put the carbon/bucket in a tub of water and add ice as needed to keep the temps low and steady.

Sent from my Droid Incredible using Home Brew Talk-Brad

beachman said:

Appreciate the comments and I think temp may have something to do with it. If I tend to be a little sloppy, it's in that category. I sometimes ferment on the back porch when temps in South Carolina are a little cooler, but temp goes from 58 to 72 each day. Other times I put it in house, but it is usually around 70 which may be a little warm for some of these.

And thanks for the comments on malty beers. They definitely come out better.

Tap water tastes fine, don't think that's an issue. I used soft water from an Artesian well near here for a bohemian pilsner and it was pretty durn good.

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70 is probably ok but remember if you are using the temp strip on the outside of the bucket you need to add a few to know what the internal temp.

When it starts to get really warm you may want to use a swamp cooler to keep the beer at a constant cooler temp. You could also build a ferm chamber .

Kaz said:

Fruity could definitely be from warm fermentation. If the air temp is 70F, the temp of the ferment could be 5-10 degrees higher. Also, the swings could be pretty extreme. You should try a swamp cooler to get things under control. Put the carbon/bucket in a tub of water and add ice as needed to keep the temps low and steady.

Sent from my Droid Incredible using Home Brew Talk-Brad

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Jinx! Guess we were typing the same thing.

Thanks! Can't wait to try out next batch. One final question- I presume the reason for keeping the temps low is because you ferment wild yeast or bacteria at higher temps. True?

beachman said:

Thanks! Can't wait to try out next batch. One final question- I presume the reason for keeping the temps low is because you ferment wild yeast or bacteria at higher temps. True?

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Nope. Fermenting low (ish) reduces the esters which are inherent in ale yeasts to some degree. If you ferment low but not too low (!) clean yeasts strains will likely ferment clean - and of course there is a sweet spot for this which you need to find for your particular taste. Note that if you ferment lower than this esters will reappear just like if you ferment higher and it is somewhat of a non-linear relationship.

The bottom line is essentially what you want depends on your particular set of circumstances, and the more control over fermentation temps you have, the more control over your final taste, at least so far as yeast derived flavors are concerned.

I know. Not much help! For me 64-66 is my sweet spot. When I want some character I pitch higher (70-74 f) but still ferment in this range (this is contrary to yeast fetishist dogma...!) I use dry yeasts exclusively though I have been harvesting and re-pitching now that prices are going up.

Good luck,
Steve da sleeve

When are you trying your beers as well? Could it be Acetaldehyde from drinking em too young and the already stated fermentation temp.

JLW said:

70 is probably ok but remember if you are using the temp strip on the outside of the bucket you need to add a few to know what the internal temp.

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Has this been tested by anyone? I feel like there are differing opinions (as there is with everything in brewing) regarding if the temp strip on the bucket is the same as the internal temp of the wort. I've been going on the assumption that it's the same, but I guess I'm wrong. Is there a rule of thumb to how much warmer the wort temp is than the thermometer strip during fermentation and when fermentation has slowed? Also, just to be clear, I'm not talking about ambient temp, but the actual temp shown on the strip.

cincybrewer said:

Has this been tested by anyone? I feel like there are differing opinions (as there is with everything in brewing) regarding if the temp strip on the bucket is the same as the internal temp of the wort. I've been going on the assumption that it's the same, but I guess I'm wrong. Is there a rule of thumb to how much warmer the wort temp is than the thermometer strip during fermentation and when fermentation has slowed? Also, just to be clear, I'm not talking about ambient temp, but the actual temp shown on the strip.

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I've found the strips to be fairly accurate to my calibrated thermometer, I would say +/- 2F. However, when the ambient temps and wort temps are greatly disparate, the strip is less accurate.

Temp is probably a culprit, maybe DMS since you said the IPAs more often than not taste strange.

beachman said:

I sometimes ferment on the back porch when temps in South Carolina are a little cooler, but temp goes from 58 to 72 each day. Other times I put it in house, but it is usually around 70 which may be a little warm for some of these.

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However, what are you fermenting in? Buckets or clear glass carboys/Better Bottles? Light affects the tastes in beer so whether they are inside or outside your house, if your fermentation chamber is clear you should be keeping them shielded from the light with maybe a T-shirt or garbage bag.

Like the other posts, I think you'll be good to go once you stabilize your fermentation temperatures. I noticed similar off-tastes before I started using water bath temp buffer. Just keep frozen water bottles and change them out each day, or as needed, and you can easily keep temps stable. In winter I can keep the temp in the low 60's, in the summer it's hard to keep below 68 or so. Definitely noticed a big jump in my homebrew quality when I started doing this.