DeafSmith

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I don't think I have ever gotten involved in something where there are so many contradictory opinions on how to do things! I have already run into this regarding how much water to use for a mini-mash: kit instructions vs. Palmer in "How to Brew" and DeathBrewer, and others on this forum.

Now I have questions regarding how to make a yeast starter. And I'm not even going to ask about whether a starter is needed, or how much to make, or whether to add it when it's most active or after it settles out - it seems that each of those questions is a can of worms in its own right. I just want to ask about the best way to make one.

First, it seems that a generally accepted figure for points/pound/gallon (ppg) of DME is around 42 (Palmer in "How to Brew" lists 1.040-1.043 S.G.; i.e. ppg = 40 to 43 on page 35 of his book and uses 42 on page 183; Papazian in Appendix 11 of "The Complete Joy of Homwbrewing" says 1 lb/gallon gives a O.G. of 1.042-1.046), so I will assume 42 ppg.

Palmer, in his instructions for making a starter on page 73 says to boil a pint of water and stir in 1/2 cup of DME to produce a starter of about 1.040 OG. Well, I just weighed a 1/2 cup of DME and assuming my scale is accurate, it's just about 3 ounces. So it seems to me that 3 ounces or 0.188 pounds times 42 and divided by 1/8 gallon would give an O.G. of 1.063 ! Is there something I don't understand about how to calculate this? Also, some instructions in the yeast starter FAQ in this forum also call for approximately this concentration: 1 cup/quart (Rhoobarb), or somewhat weaker but still stronger than 1.040; e.g., 1 cup/1300 ml = 1 cup/1.38 quart (DeRoux's Broux).

A different concentration is called for in "Fourteen Essential Questions About Yeast Starters" at mrmalty.com.
Fourteen Essential Questions About Yeast Starters
This calls for 6 ounces DME in 2 quarts of water, which I calculate to be about 1 cup/2 quarts, or 1/4 cup/pint - half of what Palmer recommends. This is supposed to give a gravity between 1.030 and 1.040, and using 42 ppg does indeed come to an O.G. of 1.032 if I understand how to calculate it.

Well, I'm sorry for the long post, but the more I study this stuff, the more confused I get. I'd be interested to know what others here use, but somehow I have a feeling that there will be many different methods, amounts, etc.

Revvy

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You're over complicating it by worrying about the og of your starter...take Palmer's (or anyone's) amount of water to extract, boil it, cool it, and pitch yeast....

Don't worry about anything else about it...The yeasties will eat and reproduce and that's all that matters starting out...

I personally use Palmer's ratio of 1 pint per half cup of extract...not that there's anything wrong with any other ratio...they all will make a starter and they all will make beer...and that's all that matters.

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ArcaneXor

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If everyone brewed beer exactly the same way, things would get really boring fast. Much in brewing is a compromise, and different people have different preferences and opinions about what will produce the perfect beer.

When I make starters, I usually make them between 2 and 4 quarts using a gravity of about 1.030-1.035, and I lightly hop them for no good reason other than that I like to taste the starter beer to get a feeling for how the health of the yeast. Unhopped starters tend to taste tart or sour and make that evaluation more difficult. I never measure out ingredients by volume (other than water, obviously).

I use about six ounces of DME for a 2-qt starter and 12 for a 1-gallon starter.

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The Fiesty(sic) Goat Brewery est. 2007 & Clusterfuggle Experimental Ales est. 2009
Planned: Fat Man Brown Porter (Pro-Am #2), WLP 351 Hefeweizen, WLP 860 Munich Helles
Primary: Centennial Falcon IPA (Pro-Am #1), sLambic I
Secondary: Flanders Red
Kegged:Himmel un Ääd Kölsch #8, Farmhouse Session Saison Pilot Batch, Chocolate Milk Stout, Pale Ale, Chili Smoked Porter, Berliner Weisse w/ Brett #3

DeafSmith

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Here's why I'm worrying (not really) about the O.G. of the starter:

Palmer, p75: "...the composition of the starter wort and the main wort must be very similar if the starter is pitched at or near peak activity. Why? Because the yeast in the starter wort have produced a specific set of enzymes for that wort's sugar profile. If those yeast are then pitched to a different wort, with a different relative percentage of sugars, the yeast will be impaired and the fermentation may be affected...."

Fourteen Essential Questions About Yeast Starters: "When making starter wort, keep the starting gravity between 1.030 and 1.040 (7-10P). You do not want to make a high gravity starter to grow yeast."

I'm not worried, and I am going to have a home brew, but I'm still confused.

ArcaneXor

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Both are correct. You want to make a starter that has similar sugar ratios to the beer you will be brewing, but you also don't want the yeast to be stressed by excessive ethanol production (which is poisonous to it) in the starter. So ideally, you'll want your starter wort to be a weaker version of the beer you will be fermenting. For most beer styles, using light or amber DME does the job just fine. What you don't want to do is make a starter with glucose, dextrose, sucrose or fructose, since beer is mostly maltose.

__________________
The Fiesty(sic) Goat Brewery est. 2007 & Clusterfuggle Experimental Ales est. 2009
Planned: Fat Man Brown Porter (Pro-Am #2), WLP 351 Hefeweizen, WLP 860 Munich Helles
Primary: Centennial Falcon IPA (Pro-Am #1), sLambic I
Secondary: Flanders Red
Kegged:Himmel un Ääd Kölsch #8, Farmhouse Session Saison Pilot Batch, Chocolate Milk Stout, Pale Ale, Chili Smoked Porter, Berliner Weisse w/ Brett #3

david_42

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Not just opinions, but a multitude of different ways to do each and every step ... and they all work!

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Revvy

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That's what I was getting at...The Op asked;

The answer is, the best way is the one that works for you...they all work, it's not a win/lose proposition....They all will make starters, and the starters will make beer.

My advice is choose one for this batch, and try another way next time..That's why some people brew SMaSHes to try different things using the same simple base ingredients...

Next time you brew a similar grav recipe try another starter method and see if it is any different...more than likely it won't be...in a normal beer, you will more than likely not notice a difference whether it is Palmer's recipe, or Deathbrewer's or Orfy's or whatever one you use...as long as they all use DME and water in some formulation, it really won't be noticeable.

It's the same with just about everything on here...it really isn't worth debating...and it's not than any one idea on here is wrong if it conflicts with another...it's all a matter of personal preference.

__________________

The Open Heart Surgery Recovery "Dramedy" continues!

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

mahilly

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Hopefully this thread is still active...I'm making a hefeweissen tomorrow so I need to do a yeast starter tonight (so say the directions). However, my yeast packet (safbrew wb-06 "dry wheat beer yeast") says "sprinkle into wort". So, do I need to make a starter or not? Thanks for any help! Mike.

ArcaneXor

Recipes 

You don't need to make a starter for dry yeast. You can rehydrate it in some water prior to pitching if you want to wake it up, or you can pitch it straight into the wort.

__________________
The Fiesty(sic) Goat Brewery est. 2007 & Clusterfuggle Experimental Ales est. 2009
Planned: Fat Man Brown Porter (Pro-Am #2), WLP 351 Hefeweizen, WLP 860 Munich Helles
Primary: Centennial Falcon IPA (Pro-Am #1), sLambic I
Secondary: Flanders Red
Kegged:Himmel un Ääd Kölsch #8, Farmhouse Session Saison Pilot Batch, Chocolate Milk Stout, Pale Ale, Chili Smoked Porter, Berliner Weisse w/ Brett #3

Bokonon

Recipes 

I use this calculator to figure out how much DME and water to use:
Homebrew Starter Wort Calculator