Cider....bottle or keg? - Page 2

**JuanMoore** · 11-22-2011, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopherM

Whole lot easier to backsweeten if you keg....

This.

Twtr25 · 11-23-2011, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacdan

Keg it. You can bottle from a keg, but you can't keg from a bottle!

Never thought about it that way! I like the convenience of my brews to be cold all the time and as simple as pulling a tap handle

Twtr25 · 11-23-2011, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopherM

Whole lot easier to backsweeten if you keg....

I'm not familiar with backsweetening. I understand the concept, but don't really understand how to determine if I need to do it or not.

How am I supposed to tell if my cider is too dry? What exactly do they mean by "dry"?

I found on the Home Brewing Wiki, it says that either Lactose or Splenda can be used to backsweeten; and it gives suggested amounts depending on how big the batch.

**TopherM** · 11-23-2011, 03:16 PM

When you ferment Apple Juice, you are talking about fermenting simple sugars that are giong to COMPLETELY ferment out if they are allowed to. That means that if you just let it sit in primary/secondary long enough, you end up with a slightly apple-y, dry drink with no sweetness at all.

When I say dry, think almost no mouthfeel, almost a "tart" or "puckery" mouthfeel. Same thing as a dry wine, you've fermented out all of the sugars and left no body. Some people like this style, most do not.

Lactose or artificial sweetener can be used to backsweeten, but it tastes "artificial" in the final product to me. Again, I venture to say some people are fine with artificially sweetened, most don't care for the taste.

Cider yeasts will advertise that they leave XXX% of the residual sugar behind, but I have found those claims to be hit or miss at best. Typically, left alone, you will end up with practically no sugar or sweetness in the final product.

The way to get a more natural BACKSWEETENING is taking your final, dry, unsweet product and mixing it with some unfermented apple juice to add back in that sweetness and more robust apple flavor. However, to do this, you must first neutalize the yeast so they don't just ferment out that sugar as well.

In a bottle, that requires either pasteurizing (Heating up each bottle to kill the yeast) or trying to "time" the fermentation and cold crashing when there are still remaining sugars, both of which are pretty involved and just a PITA in my opinion.

In a keg, however, you just keg your dry, unsweet cider, add about a 1/2 gallon of sweet apple juice directly to the keg (per 4.5 gallons of fermented juice), throw it in the kegorator at about 34-38 to hybernate the yeast, and you're good to go. These ciders taste more like the commercial versions (Woodchuck, Strongbow, etc.) with nice robust apple flavor and a good bit of residual sweetness.

Hope that is a good overview...if you want more details on either the keg or bottle method of backsweetening, let me know!

**JuanMoore** · 11-23-2011, 04:14 PM

What he said. ^ You can also use a can of apple juice concentrate to backsweeten a 5 gal keg. And if you like it dry, but also want the apple favor to come through, let it age for a year or more before drinking it.

Twtr25 · 11-29-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopherM

When you ferment Apple Juice, you are talking about fermenting simple sugars that are giong to COMPLETELY ferment out if they are allowed to. That means that if you just let it sit in primary/secondary long enough, you end up with a slightly apple-y, dry drink with no sweetness at all.

When I say dry, think almost no mouthfeel, almost a "tart" or "puckery" mouthfeel. Same thing as a dry wine, you've fermented out all of the sugars and left no body. Some people like this style, most do not.

Lactose or artificial sweetener can be used to backsweeten, but it tastes "artificial" in the final product to me. Again, I venture to say some people are fine with artificially sweetened, most don't care for the taste.

Cider yeasts will advertise that they leave XXX% of the residual sugar behind, but I have found those claims to be hit or miss at best. Typically, left alone, you will end up with practically no sugar or sweetness in the final product.

The way to get a more natural BACKSWEETENING is taking your final, dry, unsweet product and mixing it with some unfermented apple juice to add back in that sweetness and more robust apple flavor. However, to do this, you must first neutalize the yeast so they don't just ferment out that sugar as well.

In a bottle, that requires either pasteurizing (Heating up each bottle to kill the yeast) or trying to "time" the fermentation and cold crashing when there are still remaining sugars, both of which are pretty involved and just a PITA in my opinion.

In a keg, however, you just keg your dry, unsweet cider, add about a 1/2 gallon of sweet apple juice directly to the keg (per 4.5 gallons of fermented juice), throw it in the kegorator at about 34-38 to hybernate the yeast, and you're good to go. These ciders taste more like the commercial versions (Woodchuck, Strongbow, etc.) with nice robust apple flavor and a good bit of residual sweetness.

Hope that is a good overview...if you want more details on either the keg or bottle method of backsweetening, let me know!

I would have to say you pretty much answered and any all questions that I might have had about doing this cider. Thanks...I appreciate it!

I think this site/forum is very quickly becoming my favorite site to visit on a frequent basis

gauzzastrip · 11-29-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopherM

When you ferment Apple Juice, you are talking about fermenting simple sugars that are giong to COMPLETELY ferment out if they are allowed to. That means that if you just let it sit in primary/secondary long enough, you end up with a slightly apple-y, dry drink with no sweetness at all.

When I say dry, think almost no mouthfeel, almost a "tart" or "puckery" mouthfeel. Same thing as a dry wine, you've fermented out all of the sugars and left no body. Some people like this style, most do not.

Lactose or artificial sweetener can be used to backsweeten, but it tastes "artificial" in the final product to me. Again, I venture to say some people are fine with artificially sweetened, most don't care for the taste.

Cider yeasts will advertise that they leave XXX% of the residual sugar behind, but I have found those claims to be hit or miss at best. Typically, left alone, you will end up with practically no sugar or sweetness in the final product.

The way to get a more natural BACKSWEETENING is taking your final, dry, unsweet product and mixing it with some unfermented apple juice to add back in that sweetness and more robust apple flavor. However, to do this, you must first neutalize the yeast so they don't just ferment out that sugar as well.

In a bottle, that requires either pasteurizing (Heating up each bottle to kill the yeast) or trying to "time" the fermentation and cold crashing when there are still remaining sugars, both of which are pretty involved and just a PITA in my opinion.

In a keg, however, you just keg your dry, unsweet cider, add about a 1/2 gallon of sweet apple juice directly to the keg (per 4.5 gallons of fermented juice), throw it in the kegorator at about 34-38 to hybernate the yeast, and you're good to go. These ciders taste more like the commercial versions (Woodchuck, Strongbow, etc.) with nice robust apple flavor and a good bit of residual sweetness.

Hope that is a good overview...if you want more details on either the keg or bottle method of backsweetening, let me know!

I think I'm going to have to try this, thanks for the info. I attempted my first cider and it is really dry, I did use champagne yeast (LHBS was out of cider yeast) so I should have known there would be no sugars left. I tried to put some mulling spices into the secondary to help give it a little more something but it really only gave it more aroma.

Twtr25 · 11-29-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gauzzastrip

I think I'm going to have to try this, thanks for the info. I attempted my first cider and it is really dry, I did use champagne yeast (LHBS was out of cider yeast) so I should have known there would be no sugars left. I tried to put some mulling spices into the secondary to help give it a little more something but it really only gave it more aroma.

What kind of cider did you make?? This will be my first attempt and I'm just going off of a recipe I found online.

gauzzastrip · 11-29-2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twtr25

What kind of cider did you make?? This will be my first attempt and I'm just going off of a recipe I found online.

We have a ton of apple orchards around where I live so I juiced 3 bushels of different varieties of apples (that was not fun) and then added 8 ounces of molasses when I boiled for an hour with some fall type spices towards the end of the boil.

pointerDixie214 · 11-30-2011, 06:34 AM

When in doubt... keg. If for no other reason that it is 100x faster and easier.

I have bottled one batch since I got my keezer and it was an Imperial Stout I wanted to age.... I keg my apfelwein and beer. Just too easy not too.