Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Beginners Beer Brewing Forum > Christmas Ale ingredients in fermenter question:

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-26-2013, 03:41 PM   #1
bmaze7891
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 10
Default Christmas Ale ingredients in fermenter question:

I am brewing a Christmas Ale to store until December and I had a quick question in relation to the ingredients in the muslin bag during the first fermentation stage. I put the cloves, irish moss, cinnamon sticks, and all spice into the muslin bag and it called for a 4 day fermentation before transfer to secondary, but I waited 6 days to take out the muslin bag and xfer.
Just curious if keeping the ingredients in for an extended period of time would have an impact on the flavor profile of the beer since the ingredients have such a strong flavor to them as a group or is it a case where you can keep it in there for 30+ days and the flavors are generally extracted already within the 4 days and they are just sitting and not creating an issue?
I know this is a personal preference question, but I was curious how others would perceive this.

__________________
bmaze7891 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-26-2013, 04:59 PM   #2
twistr25
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
twistr25's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,388
Liked 111 Times on 104 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

Theoretically, you would think the longer it sits the more flavors that would extract, but it will eventually have a threshold, just not sure when that would be. I don't think 2 days will make that big of a difference however. What could make a lot bigger difference, did it only sit for 4 days after you pitched before you transferred? Did you happen to take a gravity reading? I would highly doubt you hit FG and now that it's transferred and off they yeast cake, it is unlikely that it will ever get there. At the very least I would expect some off flavors that the yeast weren't allowed to go back and clean up.

__________________

____________________
Primary: N/A
Bottled: All Hallow's Eve Pumpkin Ale
Kegs: Sunset Orange Kolsch Redux
Future: Black IPA Redux, possibly others
2013 Previous: Sunrise Honey Rye Pale Ale, Dark Skies Black IPA, Sunset Orange Kolsch, All Hallow's Eve Pumpkin Ale, Maple Vanilla Brown Ale, Raining Hops and Dogs IPA, Starry Night Vanilla Bourbon Porter

Awards/Recognition
Dark Skies Black IPA - 2nd Place at a local comp. Score of 39 from a BJCP judge

Twistr25 Recipes

GT Keezer Build

twistr25 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-26-2013, 05:22 PM   #3
IslandLizard
Progressive Brewing
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
IslandLizard's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pasadena, MD
Posts: 2,683
Liked 308 Times on 280 Posts
Likes Given: 976

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaze7891 View Post
...and it called for a 4 day fermentation before transfer to secondary...
What called? The recipe? Kit instructions? The whole racking to secondary is old hat, usually unnecessary, and typically the wrong thing to do, unless you want to rack onto fruit, and even then.... As twistr said, it is unlikely the beer was fermented out and definitely had no chance to clean up. Next time, just let it be in the primary for at least 2-3 weeks depending on OG. Then "dry hop" with hops, spices etc.

When dry hopping, which is similar to what you're doing except you're using spices, you would want to wait for the fermentation to be (mostly) over so not to strip the flavors out.

I think 4-7 days on spices will get you some flavor, but not sure how much or enough to your taste. Crushed spices tend to release quicker than whole ones.

I've made Christmas/Holiday ales and usually boil some cinnamon stick, fresh ginger and sometimes other spices and orange peel (zest) for 10-30 minutes, depending on how deep I want the flavors to be. Those mellow out during (bottle) conditioning and the flavor profile changes over time, quite drastically. You got 4-5 months until it is Holiday time, which maybe just OK or a bit too long. My last Great Lakes Christmas Ale clone was perfect after about 3 months after brew day. I have a few bottles left, and they are still yummy after 5 months.

On the next Christmas ale I intend to do a an additional dry hop with fresh ginger (soak in vodka to sanitize) to get more of the fragrant high notes. I would do that a week before bottling or kegging, and do not intend to rack to secondary at all. I think that beer would be better somewhat younger.
__________________
Preparing: Framboise Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #3 | Tank 7 Saison Clone | Fresh Squeezed IPA | Venturing into some Sours, finally...
Fermenting:
Dry hopping:
Barrel Aging: Old Treacle Mine
On tap: 2.3'd | Sketchy Bastard | ESB | Belgian Wit {1st place @ FSH Guild Wheat Beer Comp.} | Pocahontas Pumpkin Ale
Kicked: Black Butte Porter Clone | Raging Bitch Clone #2 | Citra Wheat Saison | Rosemary Wheat Saison | Great Lakes Christmas Ale Clone | Caramel Amber Ale
IslandLizard is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-26-2013, 08:26 PM   #4
J187
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
J187's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: , MA
Posts: 836
Liked 94 Times on 72 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandLizard View Post
What called? The recipe? Kit instructions? The whole racking to secondary is old hat, usually unnecessary, and typically the wrong thing to do, unless you want to rack onto fruit, and even then.... As twistr said, it is unlikely the beer was fermented out and definitely had no chance to clean up. Next time, just let it be in the primary for at least 2-3 weeks depending on OG. Then "dry hop" with hops, spices etc.

When dry hopping, which is similar to what you're doing except you're using spices, you would want to wait for the fermentation to be (mostly) over so not to strip the flavors out.

I think 4-7 days on spices will get you some flavor, but not sure how much or enough to your taste. Crushed spices tend to release quicker than whole ones.

I've made Christmas/Holiday ales and usually boil some cinnamon stick, fresh ginger and sometimes other spices and orange peel (zest) for 10-30 minutes, depending on how deep I want the flavors to be. Those mellow out during (bottle) conditioning and the flavor profile changes over time, quite drastically. You got 4-5 months until it is Holiday time, which maybe just OK or a bit too long. My last Great Lakes Christmas Ale clone was perfect after about 3 months after brew day. I have a few bottles left, and they are still yummy after 5 months.

On the next Christmas ale I intend to do a an additional dry hop with fresh ginger (soak in vodka to sanitize) to get more of the fragrant high notes. I would do that a week before bottling or kegging, and do not intend to rack to secondary at all. I think that beer would be better somewhat younger.
This!! All spiced beers I have made have included boiling the spices and whatnot. I can't imagine it's going to impart much flavor just sitting coriander in the fermenter for a few days, but I could be wrong.
__________________
J187 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-26-2013, 10:29 PM   #5
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 6,077
Liked 463 Times on 430 Posts
Likes Given: 209

Default

I'm going to go in another direction. My preference is to add certain spices in the boil like ginger and coriander but I reserve things like cinnamon for secondary. It really depends on what you are using as some things just do better in secondary.

Some spices need to be added and removed to "taste" and bulk aging. Either way, if you do add anything post boil it should be added once FG is verified, not during actual fermentation

Before anyone flames me I am not a proponent of using a secondary except for those special circumstances like fruit, oak or as stated certain spices

__________________
Nothing Left to do but smile and drink beer.....

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the "art" of beer since 2010
duboman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #6
bmaze7891
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 10
Default

So basically in a nutshell:
1: No secondary next time
2: Do the boil, pitch the yeast, sit for 2 weeks, if you get to FG THEN put in the spices?
-If so, do I just put the spices in a muslin bag and let it sit another 2-3 weeks as a "dry hop" before bottling?

The recipe called for just 4 days in primary before xfer to secondary, so I went by the recipe (which I found in a book I had, but do not have it with me now to get the details on the recipe). It also told me to do the muslin bag during fermentation, so I am starting to think this isn't the best brewing book.
It is sitting in the carboy now, so I am curious if you guys would do anything else to the brew at this point, or just let it sit for a while longer then bottle, move on with my life and take notes on the issues?

__________________
bmaze7891 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adding ingredients to fermenter davidsimpson General Techniques 1 06-06-2013 09:42 PM
Adding Ingredients on Secondary Fermenter NFamato General Beer Discussion 4 04-23-2012 02:45 PM
question about Ingredients comer88888 General Beer Discussion 2 01-02-2012 01:03 AM
For Sale - Anyone get a conical fermenter for Christmas they don't want? BleuChien For Sale 10 01-06-2011 03:36 AM
Yeah for Christmas - Conical Fermenter Recommendations/Considerations jdlev Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 4 12-09-2010 11:34 PM