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Old 01-24-2011, 10:47 PM   #1
Turk10mm
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Default Chimay Grande Reserve - Recipe Help

Hi All,

I've never developed my own recipe before, so I took a look at summersolstice's recipe for the Chimay Blue and made a couple modifications. I really don't know what I'm doing so any help in reviewing my changes would be appreciated. summersolstice's recipe was a little low on OG according to the guidelines for a belgian dark strong so I tweaked some of the numbers by adding additional extract, and additional grains.

Where I'm really concerned is by adding more torrified wheat to bring the OG up without making the beer too dark. Is my method acceptable for the style or do i need to consider some Light LME instead of more wheat steeping grain? If I substitute 1.5lbs of Pale LME and cut the wheat down to 1lb, I still stay in the numbers that I'm looking for.

Any and all help is appreciated.

Minimash
6.65 gallons of water (full boil) accounts for 3 quarts of liquid with a 2gal/hr loss leaving 5.18gal wort
Boil Duration 1 hour
OG 1.092
FG 1.023
21.3 SRM
24.6 IBU
9.18 ABV
310 kcal per 12/oz

Steep Grains
----------------------
Munich Malt - 2lb
Special B - 1lb (+.5lb from summersolstice recipe)
Belgian Aromatic - .25lb
Torrified Wheat - 3lb (+2.5lbs from summersolstice recipe) increased to boost OG. Although I'm not sure if this is the right way to do it

Boil
----------------------
Amber LME - 4lb
Munich LME - 4lb (+1lb from summersolstice recipe)
Lyle's Golden Syrup - 1lb

Hop Schedule
----------------------
Hallertau 3.8%AA - 1oz @ 60minutes
Styrian Goldings 3.5%AA - 1oz @ 45minutes (increased from 30 minutes from summersolstice recipe)

Whirfloc Tablet

White Labs WLP500 Trappist Ale - 2ea Double pitch w/starter

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Old 01-25-2011, 12:37 AM   #2
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The best Belgian Dark Strongs I've made were just pale base malt, dark candi syrup, and a small amount of Special B (typically <5% by weight).

The most important aspect of that type of beer will be the FG. 1.023 will be sickly-sweet. With very little bitterness to balance the sweetness, you will need a much dryer-than-average beer. The high alcohol and low residual sweetness will make it drinkable. You want between 1.008-1.014. One way to get the FG lower is by ditching some of the specialty grains, and increasing the sugar amount. Lyles golden syrup seems like a waste, because of it's price, and the fact that it's not bringing much to the flavor party. Why not use plain table sugar? I'd use something like dark candi syrup, or you can make your own:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-l...trient-114837/

Also, here's a link to one of my BDSs. This particular one was oak-aged, but the base beer is solid:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f74/belg...tested-212251/

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Old 01-25-2011, 01:34 AM   #3
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I have seen two distinct recipes for this, both with dark candy sugar, and both with paradise seed. Don't know if this info may help, but thought I would throw it out there.

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Old 01-25-2011, 03:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nateo View Post
The best Belgian Dark Strongs I've made were just pale base malt, dark candi syrup, and a small amount of Special B (typically <5% by weight).

The most important aspect of that type of beer will be the FG. 1.023 will be sickly-sweet. With very little bitterness to balance the sweetness, you will need a much dryer-than-average beer. The high alcohol and low residual sweetness will make it drinkable. You want between 1.008-1.014. One way to get the FG lower is by ditching some of the specialty grains, and increasing the sugar amount. Lyles golden syrup seems like a waste, because of it's price, and the fact that it's not bringing much to the flavor party. Why not use plain table sugar? I'd use something like dark candi syrup, or you can make your own:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-l...trient-114837/

Also, here's a link to one of my BDSs. This particular one was oak-aged, but the base beer is solid:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f74/belg...tested-212251/
Thanks for the links! I'm having a hard time adjusting ingredients to get the ABV high enough without ending up with a high FG. even without the speciality grains, its still up around 1.020 which is the upper 1/3 of the style 1.010-1.024
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Old 01-25-2011, 03:38 AM   #5
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Any software you use to compute OG and FG will assume 75% attenuation. My last BDS started at 1.095 and ended at 1.010, giving me 11.3% ABV. That is 89% apparent attenuation, and far greater than what any software would estimate. With a good amount of sugar, that degree of attenuation is not terribly difficult to achieve.

Oh, and if you haven't read Brew Like a Monk, you should. It states that Chimay Blue starts at 1.077, has 9% ABV, 89% apparent attenuation, 40 SRM, and 35 IBUs.

It's really amazing how simple the grain bills are for very complex beers. You can make a good BDS with only pale malt and dark syrup, and some breweries do. Some use a mix of dark syrup and simple table sugar. For example, Duvel uses only pilsener malts and Dextrose. Westvleteren 8 is Pale and pils malts, and sucrose and caramelized sugar. Rochefort 10 uses pils malt, one cara malt, white sugar, dark sugar, and wheat starch.

I think anyone who has had those beers would call them "complex" although their recipes certainly are not.

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Old 01-25-2011, 03:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nateo View Post
Any software you use to compute OG and FG will assume 75% attenuation. My last BDS started at 1.095 and ended at 1.010, giving me 11.3% ABV. That is 89% apparent attenuation, and far greater than what any software would estimate. With a good amount of sugar, that degree of attenuation is not terribly difficult to achieve.

Oh, and if you haven't read Brew Like a Monk, you should. It states that Chimay Blue starts at 1.077, has 9% ABV, 89% apparent attenuation, 40 SRM, and 35 IBUs.

It's really amazing how simple the grain bills are for very complex beers. You can make a good BDS with only pale malt and dark syrup, and some breweries do. Some use a mix of dark syrup and simple table sugar. For example, Duvel uses only pilsener malts and Dextrose. Westvleteren 8 is Pale and pils malts, and sucrose and caramelized sugar. Rochefort 10 uses pils malt, one cara malt, white sugar, dark sugar, and wheat starch.

I think anyone who has had those beers would call them "complex" although their recipes certainly are not.

Haha, I'm on the first chapter of Brew Like a Monk right now.
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:40 AM   #7
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Default Ok, lets try again

Ok, lets try this again (and thanks for your assistance) Its still pretty complicated but I set it for an 85% attenuation

Minimash Recipe

Kettle Volume: 6.75 gal (S.G.: 1.071)
Boil Duration: 1 hr
Evaporation: 2.0 gal
Water Volume Added: .7 gal
Final Volume: 5.26 gal (S.G.: 1.091)
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 85%
Evap/Hour: 2 gal

Ingredients:

Steep @ 155 for 45 minutes and sparge with 2 quarts @ 170
------------------------------
2.0 lb Belgian Pale
2.0 lb Belgian Pils
.5 lb Special B - Caramel malt
0.25 lb Belgian Aromatic
0.25 lb Caramunich® (Organic)
1.5 lb Torrified Wheat

Boil
-----------------------------
2.0 lb Amber Liquid
2.0 lb Munich Liquid
4.0 lb Pale Liquid
1.0 lb Belgian Candi Syrup

Hop Schedule
----------------------------
1 oz Hallertau (4.3%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1.5 oz Styrian Goldings (3.5%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min

Additions
----------------------------
1 Whirlfloc Tablet (Irish moss) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
2.5 tsp Yeast Nutrient - added during boil, boiled 15 minutes

2 x White Labs WLP500 Trappist Ale, 2000ml Starter

Original Gravity: 1.091
Terminal Gravity: 1.014
Color: 19.92 °SRM
Alcohol: 10.2%
Bitterness: 28.8

Total: 299.84 kcal

Carbonation:
Natural Conditioning
Beer Temp: 68.0 °F
Priming Agent Rate: 4.02 g/L
Priming Agent Mass: 131.16 g
Volumes CO2: 2.5

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Old 01-25-2011, 03:10 PM   #8
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I would replace the amber and munich LME with just pale, or get rid of all the steeping grains except the Special B. In those darker LMEs they use specialty grains to get the color and flavor right. Which grains, and how much, I don't know. You'll get a ton of color from the candi syrup and the amber and munich LMEs won't be necessary.

That way also you'll have a better idea of what your steeping grains taste like, instead of whatever cocktail of grains the maltster used to make the LME.

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Old 01-25-2011, 06:40 PM   #9
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Thanks for the constructive criticism. I'll rework it again and post back later this evening. I really do appreciate the help.

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Gone :( - Texas Abbey Whit

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Old 01-26-2011, 05:43 AM   #10
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I used to make a lot of mediocre beer using the "malt soup" complex recipe approach. Now I use simple recipes, and my beers are a lot better than they used to be. Some of my best beers have used only pale malt, with no specialty grains at all.

The best thing you can take away from Brew Like a Monk is how simple recipes can be to make outstanding beer.

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