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Old 10-24-2011, 07:52 PM   #21
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I was thinking chlorine/chloromines myself. If you use a counter-flow chiller,it may have an internal leak somewhere. Or your brewing water has a good amount of chloromines in it. But I don't think plastic fermenters are a bad thing. Just don't use anything abrasive to clean them. I dump 3-4TBSP of PBW in them,then fill with water & stir to mix. Let it sit 5 days or so,& it all wipes out easily with a soft cloth or paper towel. The blue ones from Autozone work great. Clean the lid,set it right side up,& use an old soft toothbrush & PBW to clean the seal in the lid.
Drain & rinse the FV,then remove the spigot (if there is one) & soak it in PBW. I clean'em with aquarium lift tube brushes. Then clean the seals with a dobie soaked in PBW,the aquarium brush in the mounting hole. Or the soft cloth works in the mounting hole as well.
I leave no stone unturned when cleaning FV's. Too many ways for them to harbor nasties.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Scandalous View Post
You may be on to something. If you use a yeast for a batch that has something wrong with it, i.e. it's tired or infected, when you wash and repitch, you are literally selecting yeast for those bad flavors.
I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. OR, THAT IT WAS INFECTED TO BEGIN WITH.

Also, chorination and chloramines can cause off flavors. Chlorination is typically not a problem (it gasses off), unless you are using bleach as a cleaner.

I DO, BUT RINSE EVERYTHING LIKE CRAZY - AND IT WAS ONLY THOSE BATCHES THAT WERE BAD AND OTHERS SINCE WERE OK.

Chloramine won't gas off. My recommendation, In your next batch, use glass for fermentation, fresh yeast, new hoses and pbw/straight-A as a cleanser and star san for your sanitizer.

I DO USE GLASS. I NOW PLAN TO USE FRESH YEAST. I'LL BUY NEW HOSE, CANE AND BUCKET. I HAVE AND WILL USE IO FOR SANITIZING
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will make all of these changes for tonight's second attempt at SNPA.

Brent
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:12 PM   #23
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I was thinking chlorine/chloromines myself.

I HAD CONSIDERED THAT BUT THE FACT THAT OTHER BATCHES WERE FINE WITH THE SAME WATER, WHICH I FILTER WITH A BRITA IN-LINE FILTER TO REMOVE BOTH.

If you use a counter-flow chiller,it may have an internal leak somewhere.

IMMERSION CHILLER WITH NO LEAKS.

Or your brewing water has a good amount of chloromines in it. But I don't think plastic fermenters are a bad thing. Just don't use anything abrasive to clean them. I dump 3-4TBSP of PBW in them,then fill with water & stir to mix. Let it sit 5 days or so,& it all wipes out easily with a soft cloth or paper towel. The blue ones from Autozone work great. Clean the lid,set it right side up,& use an old soft toothbrush & PBW to clean the seal in the lid.
Drain & rinse the FV,then remove the spigot (if there is one) & soak it in PBW. I clean'em with aquarium lift tube brushes. Then clean the seals with a dobie soaked in PBW,the aquarium brush in the mounting hole. Or the soft cloth works in the mounting hole as well.

I USE GLASS CARBOYS TO FERMENT. WHEN I'M DONE I USE A LONG-HANDLED BRUSH TO CLEAN THEM OUT THEN SOAK WITH BLEACH FOR A FEW DAYS THEN RINSE WELL AND ALLOW TO DRY. THEN SANITIZE AGAIN BEFORE USING THE NEXT TIME.

I leave no stone unturned when cleaning FV's. Too many ways for them to harbor nasties.
Tonight an SNPA brew. I'll sanitize with IO. I'll filter all of my water (which has chlorine, not chloramine - I called and asked). Then I'll watch it like a hawk.

By the way, at max I'll have a half of a beer when I brew. So it's not like I'm half in the bag and sloppy. Everything points to the re-used yeast. Each beer log sheet I check points to the same, as well.

Using all of the same processes and equipment but different dry yeast, I made the Cream of three Crops (I think that's the name - mashed 2-row, corn meal, and instant rice) AFTER the bad ones and it seems to be fine. I just kegged it on Saturday but I'll draw a glass shortly to confirm what seemed fine the other day.

I'll report back.

Brent
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:26 PM   #24
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I too have had an off flavor apear after bottling.It doesn't happen with every batch,But I've noticed it with pellet and whole hops so I don't think its hop related.To me its a fermentation temp issue because the best way I can describe
the flavor is stale yeast[not sour] .Ive used wyeast and white labs and had the
problem some times prevalent other times very faint.The mystery to me is that
the beer tastes great before bottling.I have used star san and one step,niether solved the issue.The room I ferment in is between 74-80 degrees[florida}.
I'm beginning to think Its too hot.

any in-put would be appreciated
thanks dw

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Old 10-24-2011, 08:36 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by deviantwarthog View Post
I too have had an off flavor apear after bottling.It doesn't happen with every batch,But I've noticed it with pellet and whole hops so I don't think its hop related.To me its a fermentation temp issue because the best way I can describe
the flavor is stale yeast[not sour] .Ive used wyeast and white labs and had the
problem some times prevalent other times very faint.The mystery to me is that
the beer tastes great before bottling.I have used star san and one step,niether solved the issue.The room I ferment in is between 74-80 degrees[florida}.
I'm beginning to think Its too hot.

any in-put would be appreciated
thanks dw
I am starting so second-guess myself. In the first two spoiled batches I thought they were ok as I bottled but got crappy afterwards. The one a few days ago was terrible in the carboy.

Brent
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:36 PM   #26
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By IO do you mean Idophor? That'd be better than bleach. When I first got my Cooper's micro brew kit,I used the cooper's Sodium Percarbonate in solution.which smelled a heck of a lot like bleach to me. It took several hot water rinses to get the smell out/off everything after an overnight soak,as was suggested. So much for that. Star-san & PBW from then on. Def an improvement. So I'd start soaking the carboys in PBW for a few days,then use the brush,rinse,then maybe brush again. Or use that thing with the wings on a drill that Gary Martin showed on Home Brewer TV. That looked way easier to me.
And Deviant,those temps are def too high. 65-72F would be better for ales. Heat def causes some funky off flavors.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:46 PM   #27
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Yes - Iodophor.

GREAT NEWS!!

I just tried the Cream of 3 and it is AMAZING. This was brewed after the bad ones - everything the same EXCEPT for the yeast.

I think I can file this one now and get on to brewing some SNPA tonight!

Brent

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Old 10-24-2011, 09:02 PM   #28
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Good to hear! Glad that problem went south. But I'd still ditch any use of bleach just to make sure. I hated all the rinsing myself. Idophor is def a better choice. And a soak in PBW does a fermenter good. Clean & no work from me in 5 days.
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Old 10-24-2011, 09:33 PM   #29
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Make sure you add enough oxygen when transferring from your brew pot to the carboy and ferment and bottle condition in a dark place away from any direct light/sun. Also I would sanitize with star san and a tablespoon or two of one step cleaning solution and fill up the carboy all the way to the top while brewing and rinse it out VERY WELL right before transferring the beer to the carboy.

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Old 10-24-2011, 09:55 PM   #30
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thank you unionrdr for the info.i think i can make it thru the winter when it cools but will look into better temp control in spring. why do you think the flavor only asserts itself after
bottling?

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