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FutureBrewer21 · 08-10-2012, 05:10 PM

So after reading the few (yet long and detailed) threads on s'more beer I've taken into account everyone's thoughts and come up with this concoction. Why re-invent the wheel when smarter people before you have already done the hard work

My question is....Can I just steep the oats and malt and then begin the boil with the other ingredients? Also, what do you think of the recipe? I haven't jumped into AG yet but working on it through reading and making equipment.

1.5lb flaked oats
0.5lb biscuit malt
8oz smoked malt
6oz caramunich
0.5lb chocolate malt
Steep these for 20min then....

3lbs dark LME
1lb lactose
8oz molasses
8oz dark brwn sugar
1oz willamette @ 15
12oz cocoa powder @ 15
0.1oz cinnamon stick @5
1lb Meadowfoam Honey
1tsp vanilla extract
1pkg Safale US-05 yeast

I thought maybe some vanilla bean added at secondary.

Thoughts? Is steeping the oats/malt good enough?

**NordeastBrewer77** · 08-10-2012, 05:26 PM

In theory, yes, you can steep any grains and get the color and flavor out of them. Keep in mind, without an actual mash (base malt included in the steep is a 'mash'), there will be no conversion of starch to fermentable sugar, which is fine in an extract batch since the LME and other sugars account for that. I've never steeped a flaked malt outside of an actual mash, but I have steeped the others in extract batches and it'll work fine.
As for the vanilla bean in secondary, I'd do that over using vanilla extract. Split the bean(s) lengthwise and soak in a distilled spirit (spiced rum would be my choice), after a few days, you can add the bean(s) and liquor to the secondary vessel.

FutureBrewer21 · 08-10-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NordeastBrewer77

In theory, yes, you can steep any grains and get the color and flavor out of them. Keep in mind, without an actual mash (base malt included in the steep is a 'mash'), there will be no conversion of starch to fermentable sugar, which is fine in an extract batch since the LME and other sugars account for that. I've never steeped a flaked malt outside of an actual mash, but I have steeped the others in extract batches and it'll work fine.
As for the vanilla bean in secondary, I'd do that over using vanilla extract. Split the bean(s) lengthwise and soak in a distilled spirit (spiced rum would be my choice), after a few days, you can add the bean(s) and liquor to the secondary vessel.

Excellent, thank you! I'm not a huge rum fan but I'm LOVING that idea.....whiskey it is.

**2bluewagons** · 08-10-2012, 05:42 PM

I can't comment too much on the recipe as I haven't looked into this particular style, but the primary answer is no, you cannot steep the oats and malt in your first list there. Everything in that list other than the chocolate malt needs to be mashed, otherwise it is just going to release a bunch of starch into the steeping water (assuming it is the proper temp, 150-160) that will not be converted into sugar. Some beers can support a bit of starch in there and not be noticeable, but you've got almost 3 lb there.

Are any of the recipes you've looked at all-grain or partial/mini mash? Have you looked into mini mash? Seems to me the best way to go if you want to use those grains. You will have to add at least a pound of 2-row base malt, although to get enough enzymes you might want to bump it to 2lb. You would then need to reduce your LME (approx .75lb LME = 1 lb base malt)

What I can say about the recipe is that there are quite a few ingredients there. If you have read into it and think that each item is important, then go for it, but seems to me that you might end up with a muddled beer. But for sure, look into mini/partial mash for this one, it's not that hard from what I hear. I went straight to AG from extract though, so I can't speak from exp.

Good luck!

**NordeastBrewer77** · 08-10-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FutureBrewer21

Excellent, thank you! I'm not a huge rum fan but I'm LOVING that idea.....whiskey it is.

That'll work too!!! A good bourbon would be my second choice, or my first if it were a bourbon barrel type beer. You could also try a clear distillate like vodka or un-aged rum (silver rum) if you want less of a flavor contribution from the liquor itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2bluewagons

I can't comment too much on the recipe as I haven't looked into this particular style, but the primary answer is no, you cannot steep the oats and malt in your first list there. Everything in that list other than the chocolate malt needs to be mashed, otherwise it is just going to release a bunch of starch into the steeping water (assuming it is the proper temp, 150-160) that will not be converted into sugar. Some beers can support a bit of starch in there and not be noticeable, but you've got almost 3 lb there.

The caramunich needs only to be steeped, it's a crystal malt. Chocolate and biscuit don't really contribute much fermentables to a batch, but yes, they'll only contribute starch when steeped. Smoked (I'm assuming a Rauch type malt) is technically a base malt and can be used as such. There's not enough in the grain bill to get it to convert the rest of the grains, especially the flaked oats, but I don't see the OP having a problem steeping those grains in a beer. Especially this one with all the simple sugars in it.

amandabab · 08-10-2012, 05:45 PM

"this grain must be mashed" means it wont convert to fermentable sugar and will leave starch in the wort.
lots of stuff has been steeped for flavor and mouth feel. The the extra starch
is a slight contamination concern, but I think its often over stated.

10's of 1000's of batches have been safely made by steeping grains that officially had to be mashed.

**2bluewagons** · 08-10-2012, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amandabab

10's of 1000's of batches have been safely made by steeping grains that officially had to be mashed.

True for sure, my point was that with this plan, a pretty high proportion of the total bill will not be converted.

amandabab · 08-10-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2bluewagons

True for sure, my point was that with this plan, a pretty high proportion of the total bill will not be converted.

that recipe does have a big grain bill. a pound here or there, but 3+ lbs is in partial mash territory.

SMc0724 · 08-10-2012, 06:16 PM

Bottom line is are you planning on the starch in the "cereals" (e.g. oats) to be fermentable? If not, steeping is enough. If yes, then at least a two-step conversion is necessary. Palmer even discusses to get all of the oat starches converted requires 3-steps. However, later in his book he says that the conversions are not absolutely needed. So, it's up to you.

I love oatmeal stout, so I do a three step BIAB (104 - 140 - 158°F) according to Palmer Ch 16-2 (http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter16-2.html). It may be overkill, but I get good results: First, I cook the oats (by themselves, in a bag) according to directions to make typical oatmeal. Then I add the cooked oats (with the oat water!) in the boil kettle at around 95F with the equal parts of light malt grains, as well as the specialty malts. Then 30-30-30 minutes at each rest temp. I get the mouth feel, sweet oatmeal taste, and the fermentables. All of my friends and family love the end product.

Good luck.

FutureBrewer21 · 03-11-2013, 07:22 PM

So how would I make this an AG batch? I tried my first BIAB batch with good results!! Hope to put this one on the list.