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Old 01-25-2013, 02:10 PM   #11
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This reply's probably a bit belated, but hey maybe it'll still help someone.

Probably too late to change much in the flavor profile; the first twelve hours at high krauesen are the most important for that, with subsequent times increasingly less influential. And Safale-05 is a tough yeast, but no yeast likes having its temp dropped after it's gotten that high. Maybe lower it a bit if you can, but mostly this is just gonna be a not very clean-tasting batch that might need some time to smooth out.

It is possible to get....decent...results making a lager-like beer with a clean-tasting ale yeast like S-05. A lot of the 'lager' flavor comes not from the yeast per se, but from the lower fermentation temperature. Much of what makes lager yeasts unique is simply their ability to ferment at cooler temperatures, not any inherently different flavor profile they produce. As such, temperature is almost more important in lager production than yeast strain selection. I would have a way, whether it be through swamp cooling or simple ghetto lagering (my preference), of keeping beer temperature in the high fifties to at most the low sixties before trying what you're trying. And if you can do that, you may as well use a lager yeast as well, slightly higher temp be damned. A lot of homebrewers preferentially ferment lagers in the mid-50's just to get a more reliable fermentation anyways; we don't have the sort of rigorous quality control and volume of professional brewers.

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Old 01-26-2013, 09:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyforger
This reply's probably a bit belated, but hey maybe it'll still help someone.

Probably too late to change much in the flavor profile; the first twelve hours at high krauesen are the most important for that, with subsequent times increasingly less influential. And Safale-05 is a tough yeast, but no yeast likes having its temp dropped after it's gotten that high. Maybe lower it a bit if you can, but mostly this is just gonna be a not very clean-tasting batch that might need some time to smooth out.

It is possible to get....decent...results making a lager-like beer with a clean-tasting ale yeast like S-05. A lot of the 'lager' flavor comes not from the yeast per se, but from the lower fermentation temperature. Much of what makes lager yeasts unique is simply their ability to ferment at cooler temperatures, not any inherently different flavor profile they produce. As such, temperature is almost more important in lager production than yeast strain selection. I would have a way, whether it be through swamp cooling or simple ghetto lagering (my preference), of keeping beer temperature in the high fifties to at most the low sixties before trying what you're trying. And if you can do that, you may as well use a lager yeast as well, slightly higher temp be damned. A lot of homebrewers preferentially ferment lagers in the mid-50's just to get a more reliable fermentation anyways; we don't have the sort of rigorous quality control and volume of professional brewers.
You have my attention...what's ghetto lagering? And that all makes sense. I may give it another shot with some mods. We may have a fridge we
Can use in the future for lagering but if we want to ferment several, this info will be helpful since we can only lager 1 or 2-5 gallon batches at a time.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:03 AM   #13
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Ghetto lagering just means you ferment the beer in a place that has a cool enough ambient temp to ferment at lager temps - about 48* or so is ideal, but somewhat higher is also fine.

For about 6-9 months of the year where I am, it's possible to find places with appropriate stable cool temps where you can ghetto lager. My garage is typically a perfect temp for fermentation for the entire winter, and a shed does just fine for lagering.

Not sure where you are precisely, but if you're somewhere in Indiana like your sig says, you should be able to ghetto lager just fine in the winter.

It's not perfect, but the lagers I make turn out just gangbusters. Use of high-quality base malt, hops, and good mashing practice are more important for lagers than absolutely precise temp control in my experience. But temp control is very important once you get more than a few degrees out of range.

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Old 01-28-2013, 06:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyforger
Ghetto lagering just means you ferment the beer in a place that has a cool enough ambient temp to ferment at lager temps - about 48* or so is ideal, but somewhat higher is also fine.

For about 6-9 months of the year where I am, it's possible to find places with appropriate stable cool temps where you can ghetto lager. My garage is typically a perfect temp for fermentation for the entire winter, and a shed does just fine for lagering.

Not sure where you are precisely, but if you're somewhere in Indiana like your sig says, you should be able to ghetto lager just fine in the winter.

It's not perfect, but the lagers I make turn out just gangbusters. Use of high-quality base malt, hops, and good mashing practice are more important for lagers than absolutely precise temp control in my experience. But temp control is very important once you get more than a few degrees out of range.
The problem we have in indiana is that the weather is f#%*ed. Take this week for example. It was 20 yesterday, it's going to be 60 in 2 days, then 7 for a low Friday. So a 50 degree swing inside of a week. I don't know why God hates indiana, I just know that he does. On the bright side, I can brew outside Thursday in our spring like temps before the arctic blast moves in and flash freezes the state.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:11 PM   #15
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My. We've had pretty big temps swing here too this winter, but I agree that may be a bit much to deal with. A water bath helps, but there are limits.

Even a fairly stable first week would be fine. A slightly unstable week and you need to move stuff around a few times, but it's manageable. Fifty degrees...not so much.

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Old 01-28-2013, 08:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickettj View Post
We may have a fridge we
Can use in the future for lagering but if we want to ferment several, this info will be helpful since we can only lager 1 or 2-5 gallon batches at a time.
Pony up the $30-35 needed to build a dual temp control box (using an STC-1000) for that fridge.

That, combined with a DIY Paint can fermentation heater will be the best money you've ever spend on brew equipment, especially if you want to do bocks and lagers.

http://brewstands.com/fermentation-heater.html


http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/ebay...-build-163849/
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